by clash_city_rockers 169 Replies latest jw friends
Just to simplify your questions, although others may prefer them phrased a different way:
1. Do you believe the bible is the word of God?
2/3. Do you believe that Jesus is your Lord and Saviour?
4. Do you, on reflection, realise the benefit of associating with fellow Christians?
Just another point on simple professions of faith.
Did you never hear of the poor little African girl who had little English? (again, please forgive me if I paraphrase)
The bible wasn't available in her common tongue, since it wasn't a written language.
I understand that she heard the basic gospel while in endentured service, and came to saving faith.
What was her profession, in broken English?
"He die, me no die."
Your further comment about “many have become (bible believing) Christians” I will not comment on.
Maybe you wont, but I will.
After I left the JW's in January, and posted a thread and website on my escape, I received literally scores of emails from bible believing Christians (as well as from others - thank you all for your encouragement).
I wasn't talking about percentages (since they likely don't make too encouraging reading), but rather that in my personal experience there have been a significant number that I have come into contact with.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20680&site=3
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/littletoe/Profile.html
Well this thread turned out better then I expected. I was afraid to dig for it. Then remembered, if I go over to "stats" DUH...I would probably see it right away.
I needed to find some older threads and catch up on some reading.
Billygoat, you expressed yourself beautifully and sound more Christian then most.
Moses did more for the human race then recite. I doubt most athletes would be able to endure what our past examples endured. However, he was put in his place when he got too big for his sheets.
It wouldn't hurt any of us to remember that once in awhile.
Moses story all by it self is proof enough that regardless of ones works, it will all come down to what’s in your heart in the end. And people cannot read hearts.
As far making confessions online.
Uh...would that be similar to Phone a Prayer?
I would not cheapen myself or disrespect God or Christ in such a manor.
Anything shared among us on the Internet in most cases is done so anonymously with Internet ID's.
Some of them cartoon characters.
For someone to challenge someone to an online confession to satisfy their own curiosity or to just see if they will do it, is also very disrespectful.
Neither LT Billygoat BonaDea nor anyone else not even Hillary owes you any explanation for anything.
Btw. Thank You LT for sticking up for us.
I don't know about anyone else but I needed that.
[email protected]http://ourworld.cs.com/Pwmkwzy/PAGE+1+home.html
Hello Plmkrzy,
Neither LT Billygoat BonaDea nor anyone else not even Hillary owes you any explanation for anything.
lol...Of course, Clash concludes that I am a Christ defying damned pagan because I disagree with his particular views of theology.
It is called intellectually arrogant, emotionally bullying, mentally unhealthy fundamentalism, and one day I am sure that a plant will be discovered in a rain forest somewhere that will attend to the problem. Clash's bag of glue fumes has obviously failed to do the job...lol
Clash has to learn, though I wonder if he is really willing to learn anything as he is already with the Christ....lol, that some of us do not wear our hearts on our green-sleeves.
Martin Palmer's book 'Living Christianity' is a good read for those who wish to place Christianity into some sort of historical and realistic backdrop. He is the antidote to the Clash virus.
I must warn you though, Clash would view Palmer as a sort of Christian Salmun Rushdie and might seek to beat him to death with his well thumbed copy of "How To Be Totally And Completely Foolish And Not Even Realize It".
When I first came to this forum, I was appalled at the attacks made on fundamentalists like Clash by some posters. It truly shocked me until I realized how dangerous these people are to emerging JW's who are offered a religion even more brain-numbing than the WTS, but who now are able to take a transfusion, celebrate birthdays and Christmas, go to war etc. It is an easy trap for the vulnerable.
These people are as dangerous as it gets.
Fortunately it is almost impossible for anybody with any sense at all to take Clash seriously, hence the rapid disappearance of those who originally aligned themselves with him on this post.
Best regards to you - HS
Hello Clash,
I don't have the time to visit this board very often any more. But I just noticed this thread and thought I would see who here counts themselves as disciples of Christ. It looks like there are a few more Christians here than I realized. That certainly is encouraging.
As I recall, the last time you and I "clashed" you judged me quite harshly. I forget exactly why. I think at the time you were saying that anyone who is a true Christian must believe that the creative days referred to in Genesis chapter one were literal 24-hour days, not long periods of time. Or was it my belief that the flood of Noah's day was confined to Mesopotamia? Or was it that I think God probably used evolution to create most life on earth? I forget what I said that caused you to call me an "anti-Christian." But I remember you referring to me in that way.
I have to agree with Hillary. Christians who act in such a way, when it comes to bringing the gospel to ex-JWs, do more harm than good. Why? Because most people who leave the Watchtower organization are quite fed up with being told how they must think about everything. Thus, few who throw off their heavy Watchtower "yoke" are going to want to put on any other "yoke," even the "yoke" of Christ, unless it is believed to truly be a "light" one to carry. (Matt. 11:30) Few who have just broken free from the spiritual chains of Watchtower "truth" are going to accept any other "truth," even the "truth" of Jesus Christ, unless they see that it is a truth that really does set them "free." (John 8:32; 2 Cor. 3:17) I believe that ex-JWs must see that being set free by Jesus Christ includes their being given the freedom to understand the Bible in a way that makes sense to them.
Clash, let's assume that all of your understandings of the scriptures are correct. Why not now accept those who disagree with you about some things as your brothers and sisters in Christ and trust that God's Holy Spirit will eventually guide them into all truth, just as Christ said that He would? ( John 16:13 ) Why not trust that until the time that they come to understand everything correctly, that their salvation will be secure as a result of the faith they now have in the power of Christ's sacrificial death to wash away all of their sins?
Can't you see that by demanding that everyone understand everything in the same way that you do, you are making Christianity appear very much like the Watchtower Society? How many ex-JWs do you think are going to want to again become a part of a religion that does not give them the freedom to reach most of their own spiritual conclusions?
In my waking moments, this morning, I had a dream that I was before the kirk session of Elders belonging to the local congregation of the Free Church of Scotland.
I hadn't been thinking about this thread, before I went to bed, neither had I been eating cheese.
I was questioned about my beliefs on the necessity of going to church (something that I do three times on Sunday and also during a midweek prayer meeting, so go figure).
In the dream a word was put in my mouth by the Lord, and it was this:
"Going to church, and even reading the bible, is an act or a work.
Even though James 2:26 shows that works are the fruit of a living faith, salvation is by faith alone!"
aChristian:
A very reasonable post, you present there.
24 hour creative days, localised flood of the "land", and evolution in creation, are all subjects that I have withheld personal judgement on but find fascinating.
Hillary:
Demanding explanations is one thing, but not reciprocating when asked questions seems hypocritical, or at least the height of bad manners.
I think that most of the Christian respondees did so out of respect for the thread title. I certainly know that I did.
Plmkrzy:
A pleasure, beautiful - it must have been something in your cartoon character that struck a chord.
I also agree with your comments about Andi. She's a lovely example about what Christianity is really about.
Love is the law!
(I know, I know, another dogmatic statement, but even pagans can agree with that one)
Wow there is a lot for me to respond to. I would like to give thanks for aChristian for his contrabution and his reflection I do understand where he is comming from and I hope I can communicate or at least interact with his thoughtful critisism. Also LiitleT, don't be so aprehensive I will formulate a doctrine of conversion that will best be faithful to the scriptures and reflect the thought of those who came before me but only to the point that is most faithful to the scriptures. I hope that my answers forthcomming will satisfy your objections and that you will help me by being a good Berean and checking my exegitical, biblical, systematic and apologetical formulation with the word of God to make sure that I have been faithful in my duties in explaining from the scriptures a compitent and sound, biblical and reformed doctrine of conversion.
Plum I do thank you for your return to this thread and will be looking forward to interacting with you again.
I will resume tomarrow by addressing some of the resent comments that where made.
But for now a Book advertiesment. A very Historical book from the 1920's that has still impacted our modern day evangelicalism.
blessings,
jr
Thanks UnclePenn for your kind comments- glad I made you laugh.
I was only free a year when I gave that testimony-I said I became a JW in 1965( NOT it was 63.)
Cheers my friend
Greetings hillary-step, my erudite friend!
If I were to respond to every dogmatic and inflammatory statement made by every Christian, atheist, deist, wiccan, agnostic and others who make up the fabric of this board, I would have more posts than Waiting and larc combined. LOL
If my simple statement and experience as a Christian arrogates me to the ranks of the "spittle lipped" in the eyes of some, so be it.
I was simply responding to the "roll call". In addition, in some way or another, I feel that I am aligned with everyone on this board who is involved in the fight against the borg.
Have a great weekend.
Dino
