X-JWs Who are now bible Christians

by clash_city_rockers 169 Replies latest jw friends

  • clash_city_rockers
    clash_city_rockers

    One last thing Little. Andi's system of salvation was a sytem of works righteousness that is no better than the WT. I'm not saying this to call her names but to defend the truth of scripture. You cannot truly trust Jesus in such a Palagian system. This is not picky ness it is the clearity of the gospel that must be upheld and presented.

    Question If Andi is presenting her own works then what is the means of her assurance of salvation? How can she know she has peace with a Holy God when it is she that has to deliver imperfect works laced with sin to satify the demands of a Holy God? Where is the peace in that? Do you see the burdon that she is under. Why not trust Christ alone who done it all and now the believer doesn't hve to worry because it is well with his soul, because Jesus paid it all.

    active and passive obedience of Christ for all who believe
    Amen(where's the hypercalvinism in that?),
    jr

  • Bona Dea
    Bona Dea
    To those who aren't christians, try not to take offense to a simple sharing of ideas, stories and truth. If you want to talk about actuall questions or ideas we do care and want to talk with everyone, not just those that agree with us . We are just trying to meet the others on here that are also christians now as others have done before for various other belief systems.

    Hi Angie ,
    I AM a christian. Before and After (jwism). Clash's comment to Plm just reminded me of a one of the reasons why I was eager to hear what someone else thought of the bible. One of the reasons (not THE reason, but a primary contributing factor) why I let the JWs into my home in the first place. I had a bad first marriage and when it ended in divorce, many of my "friends" in the church took the side of my ex. I was treated like dirt and was told by my pastor pretty much the same stuff that Clash is stating here. While I don't blame my ex completely for our divorce, I do know that "scripturally" I did nothing wrong. I stayed with him through many trials until I could take it no more. Perhaps I was the bad guy because I filed for divorce. All I know, is when I needed these people the most, they turned their backs on me.

    I am not alone in this. I know a lot of other people who want nothing to do with Christianity because of bold and arrogant statements such as the one's made by your brother in Christ, Clash. Too many "Christians" judge people without knowing circumstances, details, or even knowing the person (as you see, Clash has already judged me and he doesn't even know me). This isn't right. I'm sorry, I will never agree that passing judgement other people is right. I acted out of defense to this Clash fellow. He had no right damning someone to hell. Just my 2 cents.

    Little Toe,
    I just wanted to say that I always enjoy your insightful comments. You seem like someone who really has their head screwed on straight .

    Love to all,
    Bona Dea

    Bona of the totally emotional class

    "Half the world is composed of idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them."
    -Walter Kerr

  • clash_city_rockers
    clash_city_rockers

    Hillary,

    none of the bible beliving christians on this thread like Angie, Penn, and Toe have anything in common with the likes of you. You have discraced yourselve with your lies and misrepresentations of historical accounts in order for you to advance unbelief and rebellion against God's word. And sow discored amung God's people.

    I am still waiting for the chapter and verses of references for the slanderious claim you made against calvinism.

    late,
    jr

  • clash_city_rockers
    clash_city_rockers

    I know how to get to the bottom of this.

    Andi and Little Toe,

    What is the gospel?

    We will start from thier and work our way to our positions on the matter.

    Remember Little of what your church believes. And I will use the Scriptures that the Westminster Standards (YOUR CHURCH) has given me.
    If you Little Toe agree with your CHURCH (Free Church of Scotland) then every thing is cool and we can join forces and team up like brothers in Christ..

    grace to you,
    jr

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I'm sorry Clash, but I feel obliged to ask, have you really missed the point entirely?

    Our Lord demonstrated the spirit of the law, and we are encouraged to enter into the spirit of things, rather than fall on the rocks of legalism and judgementalism.

    I feel obliged to lay a command upon you: "Stop hurting my little sisters!"

    Like it or not we are teamed up already, as members of the body of Christ.
    I would categorically state that my "church" is an invisible one, not hindered by titles such as "Free Church", etc.
    Since you haven't answered any of my questions, I don't yet feel obliged to answer any of yours.
    You appear to be proof positive that evangelism cannot be learned from a book.

    A few texts for you to peruse - don't just scan them, but read the context also, and prayerfully meditate on the message that I am trying to impart to you:
    Matt.12:20 also verse 25.
    1Cor.4:4, 5.
    1Cor.9:21.

    Bona:
    Sorry to hear of your trials.
    Rom.15:33

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    lol...Clash,

    And sow discored amung God's people.

    Easy does it boy! Wipe the spittle from the computer screen and calm down. The Lords spell-check be with you.

    I once again repeat, I will not provide your education for you Clash. AlanF, AChristian and I have made this very clear to you on a previous occasion when you showed yourself singularly unable to understand even the basic premise of New Testament Exegesis.

    Your only reaction to these circumstances was to call us liars, pagans, and Godless atheists, insults that coming from you I am sure that we all bear with great pride.

    Clash, you are intellectually lazy, and in this you have much in common with many JW's, but they at least have the excuse that the world that they inhabit is conditioned to the point of sterility. You have made your own world, and frankly it seems to be the theological equivalent of the average Parisian street latrine, functional but very unhealthy.

    There is only one way down from your soap-box Clash and when you topple down, please remember those who have suffered through your vicious words and spiteful spelling...lol

    Catch you later Chuckles - HS

    PS - As to Himmler & Calvin, an even better expose of this strange union is found in Ronald Lewin's book.......No, why should I do your research for you.....

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    ((((Little and Plum and everyone else))))

    I will start by saying thank you for sharing your thoughts and viewpoints. It is only with open discussion of them, that we grow and learn, even if they are differing viewpoints.

    Clash,

    I'd like to clarify something that I think was misunderstood. I do not believe my salvation is based on carrying out those two commandments I mentioned earlier. I DO believe my salvation is based on ME accepting Christ as my Savior. It is a GIFT that God gave to me and it was a simple matter of me accepting it. BUT, I also believe that a responsibility comes with that gift of salvation. That is to follow those two commandments Christ gave us as followers.

    IMO, if you follow the two main commandments of Jesus:
    1. Love the Lord with your whole heart, soul, mind, and body.
    2. Love your neighbor as yourself.
    Do I lose my salvation if I don't follow those commandments? I don't know for sure. I am a young Christian and am still searching for a satisfactory answer. I feel in my heart that my salvation won't be taken from me, but God is a Just God and I will have to answer for whatever I DON'T do. (Especially if I KNOW I'm supposed to do it and DON'T do it!) If anyone has scriptures that show one way or another, please share with me. I'm always open to read and listen to anothers interpretation of The Word.

    But I'd also like to clarify another misunderstanding:

    Never ANYWHERE in the Bible does it say that God or Christ, expects us to do those two commandments perfectly. God KNOWS we are imperfect and KNOWS we aren't going to do ANYTHING perfectly. So how loving would it be for Him to expect perfection from imperfect creatures? Just like a good parent raising a 5 year old. Are you going to punish him for NOT knowing his multiplication tables? Of course not. You guide, teach, and LOVE that child until he learns it. That is what God does with his beloved children - US! He may have to teach us a lesson several/dozen times over, but if our hearts are "right", He will be patient with us.

    Although I appreciate your invitation to get into a doctrinal debate (lesson), I will politely refuse. But thank you for the offer. All those types of debates do is sow discord with personal interpretations. And THAT'S ALL that is. One of these days, all my doctrinal questions will be answered. But I will leave that for God to take care of in His and My time. It is personal decision to do so and I thank you for allowing me that.

    Every decision I make, every action I take, every word I speak SHOULD BE (I know I don't do it everytime) based on what Jesus would do. If my words reflect love on this board - I've accomplished my job. If I get rabid and judgemental - I've not accomplished ANYTHING to do with God's Kingdom.

    Just my two cents,

    Andi

    PS: More later when I have more time.

  • clash_city_rockers
    clash_city_rockers

    Little said:

    I'm sorry Clash, but I feel obliged to ask, have you really missed the point entirely?

    Our Lord demonstrated the spirit of the law, and we are encouraged to enter into the spirit of things, rather than fall on the rocks of legalism and judgementalism.

    I feel obliged to lay a command upon you: "Stop hurting my little sisters!"


    Why do I get the sneaking suspition that you reaaly do not hold on to the doctrines that you claim and that if you did further reflection you might discover that you have docrinal and ideal conflects with your own church. I you where consistant the those yould me my sisters too that you charge that I'm hurting. But the fact is

    Bona Dea and Plum are not your sisters in Christ if you truly hold on to the biblical doctrine of salvation as layed out by the Westminster Confession of Faith. How can you say these that they are your sisters and at the same time 100% hold to this doctrine

    (Little Toe's Church's offical doctrine. Don't you agree with your own church's theology if not why are you there. But since Little goes to this church then you hold to this doctrine absolutly)

    CHAPTER IX.
    Of Free Will.
    I. God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to good or evil.

    II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which is good and well-pleasing to God; but yet mutably, so that he might fall from it.

    III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

    IV. When God converts a sinner and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that, by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.

    V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutable free to good alone, in the state of glory only.

    CHAPTER X.
    Of Effectual Calling.
    I. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ: enlightening their minds, spiritually and savingly, to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good; and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

    II. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from any thing at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.

    III. Elect infants, dying in infance, are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit, who worketh when, and where, and how he pleaseth. So also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.

    IV. Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come to Christ, and therefore can not be saved: much less can men, not professing the Christian religion, be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the law of that religion they do profess; and to assert and maintain that they may is without warrant of the Word of God.

    CHAPTER XI.
    Of Justification.
    I. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alons; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.

    II. Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.

    III. Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are thus justified, and did make a proper, real, and full satisfaction o his Father's justice in their behalf. Yet inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them, and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead, and both freely, not for any thing in them, their justification is only of free grace, that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.

    IV. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify the elect; and Christ did, in the fullness of time, die for their sins and rise again for their justification; nevertheless they are not justified until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.

    V. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified; and although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may by their sins fall under God's Fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.

    VI. The justification of believers under the Old Testament was, in all these respect, one and the same with the justification of believers under the New Testament.

    CHAPTER XII.
    Of Adoption.
    All those that are justified, God vouchsafeth, in and for his only Son Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption: by which they are taken into the number, and enjoy the liberties and privileges of the children of God; have his name put upon them; receive the Spirit of adoption; have access to the throne of grace with boldness; are enabled to cry, Abba, Father; are pitied, protected, provided for, and chastened by his as by a father; yet never cast off, but sealed to the day of redemption, and inherit the promises, as heirs of everlasting salvation.

    CHAPTER XIII.
    Of Sanctification.
    I. They who are effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened, in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

    II. This sanctification is throughout in the whole man, yet imperfect in this life: there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part, whence ariseth a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.

    III. In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail, yet, through the continual supply of strength rom the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regerate part doth overcome: and so the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    CHAPTER XIV.
    Of Saving Faith.
    I. The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts; and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word: by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments, and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.

    II. By this faith, a Christian believeth to be true whatesoever is revealed in the Word, for the authority of god himself speaking therein; and acteth differently, upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth; yielding obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life, and that which is to come. But the principle acts of saving faith are, accepting, receiving, and resting upon Christ alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace.

    III. This faith is different in degrees, weak or strong; may be often and many ways assailed and weakened, but gets the victory; growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through Christ, who is both the author and finisher of our faith.

    CHAPTER XV.
    Of Repentance Unto Life.
    I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.

    II. By it a sinner, out of the sight and sense, not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God, and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments.

    III. Although repentance be not to be rested in as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ; yet is it of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.

    IV. As there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.

    V. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.

    VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof, upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy: so he that scandelizeth his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended; who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.

    CHAPTER XVI.
    Of Good Works.
    I. Good works are only such as God hath commanded in his holy Word, and not such as, without the warrant thereof, are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intention.

    II. These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith: and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life.

    III. Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.

    IV. They, who in their obedience, attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate and to do more than God requires, that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do.

    V. We can not, by our best works, merit pardon of sin, or eternal life, at the hand of God, because of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come, and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom by them we can neither profit, nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins; but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants: and because, as they are good, they proceed from his Spirit; and as they are wrought by us, they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection that they can not endure the severity of God's judgment.

    VI. Yet notwithstanding, the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in him, not as though they were in this life wholly unblamable and unreprovable in God's sight; but that he, looking upon them in his Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.

    VII. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and others; yet, because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God; they are therefore sinful and can not please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God. And yet their neglect of them is more sinful, and displeasing unto God.

    CHAPTER XVII.
    Of The Perseverance of the Saints.
    I. They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

    II. This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own free-will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

    III. Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevelancy of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; ad for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon theselves.

    CHAPTER XVIII.
    Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation.
    I. Although hypocrites, and other unregenerate men, may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions: of being in the favor of God and estate of salvation; which hope of theirs shall perish: yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him, may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace, and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God: which hope shall never make them ashamed.

    II. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probably persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope; but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation, the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God; which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.

    III. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith but that a true believer may wait long and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it: yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto. And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure; that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness.

    IV. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience, and grievth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God's withdrawing the light of his countenance and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light: yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may in due time be revived, and by the which, in the meantime, they are supported from utter despair.

    How can you agree with this (with out crossing your fingers) and at the same be assured that Plum and Bona or even Andi (whom I think she is sadly confuesed)are your sisters in Christ. Have you ever read thier attacks on Christ and the Bible on other threads? (not the case with Andi she just doesn't understand the work of Christ I dont want to misrepresent Andi ) Do you share the same sentements torwards Christ as they have expresses in other posts. They have written some vile comments. Are you brotherhood to that?

    Second how dare you call me a legalist Don't you know that around these parts I am known as the number one defender of Christian Libery. Even so much that some have accused me of being an antinomian! Well I'm know antinomian for I do not like antinomiunism but I hate legalism even more.

    I have more to say but I'll wait until tomarrow.

    shalom,
    jr

  • clash_city_rockers
    clash_city_rockers

    More doctrine from The Free Church of Scotland, Littletoe's church

    CHAPTER III.
    Of God's Eternal Decree.
    I. God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

    II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, as that which would come to pass, upon such conditions.

    III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.

    IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.

    V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace.

    VI. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto. Wherefore they who are elected being fallen in Adam are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.

    VII. The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.

    VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending to the will og God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election. So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God; and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.

    Bona, Andi, and Plum

    Go to this website and see if you can embrace this churche's presentation of the Gospel of Christ. I can by God's grace and consider them like minded brotheren.

    Little do you see how wide the divide? Rember it is not just about doctrine but it is about accepting Christ as prescribed in the scriptures articulated and explained by these reformed doctrines.

    http://www.freechurch.org/

    Crown HIM Lord of all.
    jr

  • gumby
    gumby

    ccr. Gawd!.... People like you make me constipated.
    Why don't you go hang with other overeducated intillectual nerds somewhere else and take your doctrinal confessions with you.

    Your a disgrace to all thats good......bite me!!!!!!!!!!!!

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