Killing In Self Defense

by Cold Steel 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • piztjw
    piztjw

    I know exactly what I would do, and am quite prepared to do so if required.

    *** g 6/08 p. 11 When Is Self-Defense Justified? ***

    The Bible thus indicates that a person may defend himself or his family if physically assaulted. He may ward off blows, restrain the attacker, or even strike a blow to stun or incapacitate him. The intention would be to neutralize the aggression or stop the attack. This being the case, if the aggressor was seriously harmed or killed in such a situation, his death would be accidental and not deliberate.

    It may be a slow, fat slug, but my .45 ACP with PD ammunition would STOP the aggressor...permanently!

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    The nu-light on self-defense is that it's ok. I'm not sure that the BOE would approve of JWs advertising the fact that they study self-defense, but they can't penalize you for knowing how to handle yourself. Let's face it, if you threw down and saved a fat-ass elder or his wife, they would be talking out of the other side of their mouth.

    DD

  • TD
    TD

    Rutherford was squarely behind the right of self defense and in the book Enemies talks about it for a page or two at a personal level.

    The book Judging Jehovah's Witnesses: Religious Persecution and the Dawn of the Rights Revolution documents how Witnesses took deer rifles to the roofs of Kingdom Halls to defend themselves from angy mobs

    It gave them a lot of bad press, especially when local law enforcment was part of those mobs.

    IMHO this was the point where the anti self defense sentiment was born in the JW movement. It stands in contrast to most other fundamentalist Christain sects in America.

    It's interesting that it appears to be racheted down in the last ten years or so.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    I remember my grandfather telling me about the beatdown Rutherfraud's bodyguards would hand out once in a while at conventions when opposers would show up.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-R_EZWaxmjaI/UkueMk0qRBI/AAAAAAAAATo/pteYqgIfCIo/s400/KNORRANDJUDGE.jpeg

    piztjw: It may be a slow, fat slug, but my .45 ACP with PD ammunition would STOP the aggressor...permanently!

    I believe the proper terminology is "neutralize". See Awake! 6/08. LOL.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    You do realize that those "bodyguards" are actually N. H. Knorr and the lawyer A. H. MacMillan, right? They wouldn't know how to beat someone down if their life depended on it.

  • prologos
    prologos

    These are 3 big fellas with heavy canes*, even amateurs could do a lot of damage .

    Stand your ground laws and sentiment are alive and well for good reasons.

    Nathan did not need one for walking, perhaps the other 2 neither. Dandies, so:

    were they for defense or pre-emptive strkes?

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    I think they were for looking dandy. Or possibly for solidarity, to make Rutherford feel better about needing one, if indeed he did.

  • Gregor
    Gregor

    Apog. Don't believe it then.

    But it's true and was common knowledge among the witnesses in the day. My Grandfather and a couple of uncles were available volunteers and personally knew the bodyguards. The canes were used to reach the hecklers who placed themselves in the middle of rows. They would grab them and as they were dragging them out the would give them a rap on the elbow with a loaded cane.

    Why do you doubt it?

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Are Witnesses really supposed to not take self defense classes? There are many reasons why it should be permitted. Mastering one's self physically and disciplining one's self emotionally is at the heart of many SD courses. People are taught to restrain themselves when they might otherwise not. If J. had taken such courses, he might have physically disarmed the intruder instead of killing him. That way the intruder, who has a long rap sheet of violent crimes and has spent three stints in prison for rape, assault, and wantonly removing tags from bed matresses, will be spared to rape, pillage and murder another day. Can someone actually be disciplined for taking such courses? If counseled, could a brother be disfellowshiped if he continued taking self defense courses? And what of courses for learning how to use and carry a gun? If J. had been legally carrying a small .357 and shot and killed two attackers, would he be in trouble then? Or if the elders learned that J. had acquired a concealed weapons permit, what then?

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Gregor, I doubted it because it sounded like you were referring to the well-known picture which ADCMS then posted, which erroneously labels Rutherford's companions as bodyguards. If you have heard firsthand accounts of bodyguards removing hecklers, then that's different. However, I want to point out that you first said they would "whack" hecklers, and this sounded more violent to me than, as you later said, using the canes to hook them, and then 'giving them a rap on the elbow' on the way out. I find it difficult to believe anyone was getting a "beatdown", as ADCMS said, but I can accept your last statement of events.

    Cold Steel, some quotes for you:

    *** w84 3/1 p. 13 Declining to ‘Live by the Sword’—A Protection ***
    Christians today likewise abstain from trusting in weapons such as guns and knives—even during these dangerous, “critical times hard to deal with.” (2 Timothy 3:1) They take seriously the Bible’s command to ‘beat swords into plowshares,’ and they do not seek to harm their fellowman. (Isaiah 2:4) Because they do not carry weapons for purposes of self-defense, instead of resorting to violence they are more inclined to try to reason with people who would do them harm. “If possible, as far as it depends upon you, be peaceable with all men,” is the counsel they follow.

    *** w83 7/15 pp. 24-25 pars. 12-14 “Seek Peace and Pursue It” ***
    12 In line with Romans 13:1, 4, the worldly “superior authorities” may set up certain peace-keeping agencies, such as police, that are armed officially to protect citizens and property. Since such arrangements permitted by God are described as “God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad,” it would be in order for the Christian to request and receive protection from such an agency. But even if he finds it necessary to defend himself or his loved ones by whatever is at hand, he should not use firearms. Nor would he take the law into his own hands. In many countries it is illegal even to possess firearms for self-defense.—Matthew 22:21; compare Exodus 22:2.

    13 However, for private self-defense, might not the Christian take training in the martial arts, such as the Chinese Kung fu? Let it be noted that this most lethal of the Oriental arts was developed more than 1,400 years ago by Zen Buddhist monks of the Shaolin Monastery on the slopes of Songshan, one of China’s sacred mountains. From this religious source came also the martial arts of Japan—Bushido, meaning, literally, “The Way of the Warrior.” Many experts in the arts of judo, kendo and karate still draw inspiration from religious meditation. Karate has as its objective incapacitating the victim, which could result in serious injury or death. Surely, those who trust in Jehovah would not turn to the martial arts for defense!—Proverbs 3:31.

    14 Would it be fitting for the Christian to possess firearms for the purpose of hunting animals for food? Since the Flood, God has permitted the killing of animals for food, though the blood must be poured out on the ground, not eaten. (Genesis 9:3, 4; Deuteronomy 12:23-25) When allowed by local law, some Witnesses keep guns for protection against wild animals or for shooting game. (Matthew 22:21) To them this may be an important or practical source of food. But never should anyone think that Jehovah would approve of taking animal life for sport, for the thrill of killing—as has been the way with ancient and modern “Nimrods.” Since “the soul of the flesh is in the blood,” this is precious in Jehovah’s sight.—Leviticus 17:11, 14.

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