Killing In Self Defense

by Cold Steel 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sir82
    sir82

    It would definitely be a (JW) judicial case, due to "manslaughter" (it's in the elders manual).

    The JW would likely plead "repentance" in order to avoid the DF.

    It's certain that the local BOE would be gob-smacked and would be on the phone with Bethel (both Legal and Service Depts.) immediately. It is quite possible that the Service Dept. would tell them exactly what to do. A case with such notoriety, they'd want to control the whole thing.

    My best guess is that he'd be DF'ed, upon orders of the Service Dept. But then perhaps allowed back after a shorter-than-usual time, maybe 6 or 8 months.

  • BU2B
    BU2B

    This is yet another hypocrisy.

    For example, they expect a woman to fight off a rapist yet if she wanted to take personal defence classes to actually be able to stop the rapist, that is prohibited. I say screw them. You cannot be DF even for carrying a gun for your employment. The worst that will happen is loss of "privleges".

  • TD
    TD

    Apognophos,

    The use of canes by attendants for defensive purposes at times was documented in The 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses and in Penton's Apocalypse Delayed.

    For whatever it's worth, Penton also claims that Knorr did serve as a bodyguard for Rutherford.

    Author Gary Botting (Who was here on JWN briefly) and Band On The Run (A current participant here) have also both corroborated that Rutherford and Knorr both had bodyguards.

  • TD
    TD
    For example, they expect a woman to fight off a rapist yet if she wanted to take personal defence classes to actually be able to stop the rapist, that is prohibited.

    Another example of the hypocrisy is condemning people who stand around and do nothing when a violent crime is committed in broad daylight without addressing exactly what in the hell a JW should do to stop it. Calling the police while a young woman is being stabbed to death is no answer at all.

  • Darth Fader The Sequel
    Darth Fader The Sequel

    Excellent point, BU2B.

    This topic (self-defense) is especially near and dear to me. The naive thinking (or lack thereof) of the average JW on the very real matters of self-defense drives me absolutely nutty.

    Example: Brother Nutsbegone and his dutiful wife, Sister Doormat are zealous devotees of the alphabet soup (GB/FDS/WTBT$) of New York. They are sitting at home one evening having family worship night reading out of the Bible Stories book with their three young children (by pure coincidence, the story this week is David and Goliath). Suddenly, the front door is kicked in and a hooded stranger barges in to perform the dreaded home invasion, rape and murder. Of course, Brother Nutsbegone has followed the Holy Spirit directed counsel from the alphabet soup in NY (and at the urging of Sister Doormat) and he has rid his home of any evil firearms so that he and his family could never be accused of flirting with "blood guilt" and screw up their chances of petting pandas for millions of years. But!!!! The hooded attacker is indeed rampaging through his living room and Brother Nutsbegone has got to do something (we would hope) to protect his wife and family.

    Here are Brother Nutsbegone's choices:

    1) Pray to Jehovah for divine protection (highly recommended by the alphabet soup in NY)

    2) Offer the attacker a free in-home Bible study in hopes of reasoning with his inner spiritual desire (how many of those stories have we heard over the years?).

    3) Call the police and wait 20 to 30 minutes (while Brother Nutsbegone is beaten unconscious, his wife is raped and his children are terrorized) for them to arrive and ultimately shoot the hooded attacker (subcontracting their blood guilt to a "worldly person").

    4) Brother Nutsbegone could quickly grab any bludgeon-like object that was nearby (a hammer, a lamp, a kitchen knife, a baseball bat, a flower pot) and attempt to beat the hooded attacker into oblivion, thereby killing him with brain trauma.

    Now, according to what we know and have read in the above comments of what the alphabet soup in NY allows and will accept as proper defense of one's self or family, Brother Nutsbegone would be in perfect harmony with the Holy Spirit if he chose to do any one of these four choices.

    And yet, we are told that if Brother Nutsbegone had been skilled in and kept a firearm for protection of his family, and the result of using the firearm in this home invasion lead to the hooded attacker being just as equally dead as he was if he bludgeoned him to death with a flower pot.......... Brother Nutsbegone would be held "blood guilty" for keeping and using a firearm? No "privileges". No petting pandas. No more tender affection from Sister Doormat.

    The hypocrisy and stupidity of this way of thinking is BEYOND what I can comprehend.

    Therefore, I say to anyone who wants to lecture me on how I can protect myself and my family (or any innocents for that matter).......... F YOU!!!!

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000

    Are you saying that a JW has the right the defend his home and use deadly force?

    What if there was a city made up of JWs, and there was a neighboring town who decided to attack this city so they can pillage and murder everybody. Do the JWs have the right to organize themselves and defend their city? If any JW answers yes to this, then they have just admitted that it's ok to join an army.

  • Darth Fader The Sequel
    Darth Fader The Sequel

    You make a valid point, RedVip2000.

  • Darth Fader The Sequel
    Darth Fader The Sequel

    I will never participate in invading any other countries or cities in an army or otherwise. But........ if my state, county, town or home is being invaded by anyone for any reason....... you can bet your life I will be defending and spraying a whole lot of lead. ;-)

  • BU2B
    BU2B

    Amen to that Darth Fader. I feel exactly the same way. Dead is dead. I would argue that if you DID NOT defend your family by injuring/killing a home invader and he killed someone YOU would still bear bloodguilt for allowing it to happen when you could have stopped it.

    If you are going to defend your family or yourself, why wouldnt you use the most effective means availble, a firearm.

    My wife owns swords for personal defense, yet does not want a gun. Why would you not want the most effective means of defense available?

  • Darth Fader The Sequel
    Darth Fader The Sequel

    Precisely! If, in the moment of the attack, time could be stopped and Brother Nutsbegone could be given the choice in the moment "Do you want a flower pot or a 12g shotgun?", 100 times out of 100 any *sane* person would choose the shotgun. But 90% of them will ignore reality and instead play a fantasy game in their head of "divine protection" and even justify martyrdom with the promise of a paradise resurrection. IDIOTS!!!!!

    Agree too on the "blood guilt" of NOT defending an innocent from attack. Much worse crime in my book.

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