This weeks #2 & #3 talk on homosexuality (page 8)

fulltimestudent

granada35:

I forgot to mention in my openning comment regarding hearing this ex-elder giving the #3 talk this week on homosexuality...towards the end of his talk, he not only raised his voice (almost yelling) to display his disgust towards homosexual people but was actually shaking with anger....and then the school overseer got up on stage and told the congreation that this brother did an "excellent job in delivering this talk!!!!"

Separation of Powers, has it right when he says:

I have been in congregations where the zealot against drinking was a drunk, the zealot against pornography was an Internet freak, and the zealot against all things "gay" was a closet homosexual.

The anger shown by the speaker, is as much directed at himself, as at same sex attracted people. That speaker (likely) cannot get rid of his attraction, but despises himself for having an attraction to men.

It's sad isn't it? What a terrible way to have to live!

Even worse, if he's married, he's unlikely to have a good sexual relationship with his wife, and thus denies her the fulfillment of her sexuality.

What a terrible thing Christianity has done to the world.

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For anyone reading this, who has same sex attraction and is experiencing self-hate to the dangerous extent shown by the man giving the talk in granada35's experience, please not that help is available.

A good starting point for you, could be this website: http://www.rainbow-project.org/mh/internalised-homophobia

fulltimestudent

Island man:

Personally, the thought of two men getting it on, or trying to imagine myself getting it on with another man, repulses me. ...

This is how I feel about homosexuality. I see homosexuals as persons having a sexual preference that I do not share and even find disgusting to contemplate, I just see them as having a bizzare sexual taste - from my heterosexual perspective.

Island man, there's at least one flaw in your persepective.

All the practises involved in homosexual practise, are mirror images of heterosexual sexual practise. There are only limited things that humans (or animals) can do to each for sexual experience.

Male 2 female practise	Male 2 Male Practise
Oral sex	the same
Anal sex	the same
Vaginal sex	Impossible for males, but possible for females

Island Man

fulltimestudent, yes heterosexuals do engage in similar acts to homosexuals, but it's not just about the acts its about the lack of sexual desire and sexual attraction. Without sexual desire and sexual attraction, sex is actually a disgusting act whether homosexual or heterosexual. That is why young children who haven't reached puberty think of it as being "gross". So I find two men having sex to be repulsive because I can't empathize with it sexually since I don't have sexual desire toward men, and sex without sexual desire is just gross. But on the other hand, I'm not repulsed by Lesbian sex because I can empathize since I'm sexually attracted to women.

You're right from a logical and rational standpoint. But my reaon for being repulsed by the thought of having sex with another man, is not logical and rational. It is purely subjective, based on my own sexual preference. It is because I recognize this that I don't condemn homosexuals or think they should be thought less of or denied certian privileges. We all have subjective likes and dislikes not founded in rationality and must be careful not to use such subjective viewpoints as a basis for condemning others or discriminating against them.

Zoos

Island Man, you're a bragger!

Hummingbird001

If I followed the WT, I would have nothing to do with my children. My son is tattooed and my daughter is a lesbian.

I would be missing out.

My daughter has been in a relationship for 3 years and it has been good for her - her partner brings out the best in her, they are loving and kind with each other and with others. I consider her partner my daughter-in-law.

Really, what more could a parent ask for, in regard to their children? That they are in a happy and loving relationship with someone who cares about them and brings out their best and they are contributing members of society?

Separation of Powers

I have said this before on another topic for those that have a real problem with "the gays" as my MIL calls them.

If you can tell me why you are attracted to blondes over brunettes, then tell me.

If you can tell me why you are attracted to one body type over another, then tell me.

If you can tell me why you are attracted to the color red over the color blue, then tell me.

If you can tell me, then you probably don't have any issue with "the gays" (thanks MIL...hilarious) because you realize that most attraction is chemically based and functions on a cerebral level that you have no real control over.

If you can't, then you are just plain ignorant and a bigot... i.e. " a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions." (Webster's)

fulltimestudent

Dear Island man,

Of course, you're right - so much of what we do is subjective, but we could make an effort to understand the viewpoints of other sexualities, couldn't we? Not all human societies have adopted you're attitude, which, surely, reinforces your comment on subjectivity. But, I want to make the point that understanding someone else's viewpoint does not mean that you have to adopt the practises that you've come to understand.

Our Christian backgrounds make us see the world in black and white, which is a quite deficient way to see the world of humanity.

A few days ago I helped an acquaintance, who had to have a hernia operation. He's single, lives alone, (25% of Australians live alone these days) and had no-one to give him some support to get to the hospital and accompany him home. Prior to the day of the operation, he wanted to know something about the operation, so I looked up stuff for him on the internet, and found this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGVlf6LlQ3s the interesting thing was he could hardly watch it, finding a view of anyone's insides "disgusting" - which is just the word you've used.

I find that puzzling, that this person could feel his own body was disgusting surprises me.

Anyway, I'll prepare a second post on this theme, that will compare western and Asian outlooks on the matter.

fulltimestudent

A very popular 2007 Korean movie, called, "The Frozen Flower" had a very interesting storyline. It involved a Korean King (a real figure in Korean history) was same sex attracted. In the film, his key General is also his male lover. in this trailer of the movie, you'll see (at about 25 seconds) a brief clip from a much longer segment of the movie, of the King and his General making love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUlfJXWenIM

It's quite physically violent at times, but the theme involves the jealousies that are aroused when the King comes under political pressure, to have an heir to ensure political continuity. He tries the make the Queen pregnant but fails. So he thinks up a scheme in which the General can make the Queen pregnant. I'll leave it to your imaginations to work out the consequences.

My point is that although there is not yet a general acceptance for same sex attracted people in Korea, the movie was quite popular ( I saw it at a Korean film festival sponsored by the Korean government) and talking to Koreans, there were no feelings of disgust at the homosexual scenes.

But check out comment by western people and its a different story. If you need to read some try the comments on this website about the movie:

http://jolecole.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/movie-rant-frozen-flower-explores.html

There must be a reason for that, what do you think accounts for objectivity on one hand and disgust on the other?

Island Man

Fulltimestudent:

"Dear Island man,

Of course, you're right - so much of what we do is subjective, but we could make an effort to understand the viewpoints of other sexualities, couldn't we? Not all human societies have adopted you're attitude, which, surely, reinforces your comment on subjectivity. But, I want to make the point that understanding someone else's viewpoint does not mean that you have to adopt the practises that you've come to understand."

Fulltimestudent, I understand that homosexuals are as attracted to the same sex as I am attracted to the opposite sex. I don't have a problem understanding that. I also understand that homosexuals should not be judged or denied certain privileges or discriminated against on the basis of their sexual orientation. Do I need to understand more than these things? If so, what else do I need to understand and why?

Crazyguy

I think if one is going to profess to be a christians then he has to put Jesus teachings above all others. Jesus said to have love for everyone and if you could love even your enemy you would be perfect like god. Ridiculing ones sexual orientation is judging someone somethings else Jesus said not to do. Science I believe and Nature that being Gay is really not a choice We should have love for them as if there was maybe a change in the brain that makes them this way. Jesus does talk about Adultery so maybe gays can not go out and have sex with every gay person they meet just like hetorsexual people were not to either.

Now if you're not a christian and I am not, I believe that this is another case of the bible contradicting itself.

This weeks #2 & #3 talk on homosexuality

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