This weeks #2 & #3 talk on homosexuality (page 9)

fulltimestudent

Island Man: Fulltimestudent, I understand that homosexuals are as attracted to the same sex as I am attracted to the opposite sex. I don't have a problem understanding that. I also understand that homosexuals should not be judged or denied certain privileges or discriminated against on the basis of their sexual orientation.

Cool!

Do I need to understand more than these things?

Nope! Understand what you want to understand. Doesnt matter to me.

If so, what else do I need to understand and why?

If you share opinions, and enter into conversations you may be presented with disssenting ideas. What I attempted to do in this conversation was to present some reasons why we may conflate something like 'disgust' with other people's lives.

I wanted to move the conversation onto why we may feel like that, rather than just whether something should arouse disgust.

One view of the word culture, is that it encompasses all human behavior that is NOT instinctive (i.e. any behaviour that does not have a biological root.) For example, the need to eat is founded in our body, but what we eat and how we prepare it, can be defined as 'culture.' What 'others' eat and how they prepare may arouse a feeling of disgust when we learn of it. Watching a film on Thai people eating cockroaches, at first aroused in me a feeling of disgust. I had to reason with myself to understand that the feeling was rooted in culture and not biology.

So by all means, do nothing, change nothing, from your current position, if that's what you wish. (After all, that's likely how we behaved as Jws, or any other brand of Christianity). Or, you could re-examine your world and embark on a wonderful intellectual world of adventurous understanding.

I am not suggesting anyone has to do something or eat something they are not doin/eating at present, merely suggesting a different approach to the universe.

Quendi

An interesting discussion which I am joining very late. I don't have much to contribute but I wanted to draw attention to this video which I believe encapsulates much of what many gay men have felt and experienced. I know it summed up my life and feelings very well. I also want to say that there is no way the Governing Body and the cult it controls will ever change their stance on LGBT issues. Yes, the WTS sees the rising tide of acceptance of homosexuality not only in the United States but elsewhere in the world. I have no doubt that the leadership is both disgusted and alarmed by this. I also think that for many gay and lesbian Witnesses, particularly in developed nations, matters are approaching a critical junction. Should they choose to remain Witnesses and lead sterile and largely joyless lives, or should they at last break free? It will be interesting to see what they will decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XZRNL9ZnyM&list=PLAFA0B8FB23E26E4F&index=40

Quendi

Island Man

The video linked above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XZRNL9ZnyM&list=PLAFA0B8FB23E26E4F&index=40

Quendi

Thanks for the corrected URL, Island Man. The one I gave was to my personal YouTube account.

Quendi

LisaRose

It's a cult, their need to control everything will never allow them to accept homosexuality. This will become a problem for them as more parents are forced to accept that they have children who are gay. They may try to pretend it's 1950, but it's not. Gay people are out of the closet and they are not going back.

Quendi

The analogy I've been sharing with people about the growing visibility of LGBT people is not that we are coming out of the closet but that we are finally emerging from our foxholes. While there are still some snipers out there we must be wary of, the large scale shelling has ended and we are making our presence known and felt. For people and organizations like hard-core Witnesses and the WTS, these are frightening times. The external scene is bad enough, but what is happening internally is even more disturbing.

LisaRose has raised a point that I believe has been troubling the upper echelons of the WTS for some years now. I think that more parents are writing the Society and asking for help in dealing with their gay sons and lesbian daughters who have been born into and raised up in a Witness home. The first question they must be asking is how could this have happened? Despite strictly controlling their choice of friends in and out of the congregation, places they visit, entertainment they choose and other things, these young people are gay. The next question is what can they do about this? Haul their kids before a judicial committee? Seek professional help? Pray the gay away? Or do the unthinkable and accept and embrace their children?

The WTS leadership has no answers for these parents and their children. Their responses have, for the most part, been uncompromising, harsh and lacking in empathy and understanding. How can they be otherwise? Despite these failures they can count on the support of the rank-and-file Witnesses who themselves are steeped in ignorance and fear when it comes to LGBT issues. The b'Org will survive this crisis just as it has past ones. My hope is that the people most directly affected by its homophobia will wake up and leave it behind forever.

Quendi

Simon

I've never understood the desire to belong to a group that is fundamentally opposed to who you are.

There used to be a brother in the KH that in hindsight was likely gay and he committed suicide. Why? Why do that to yourself? I just don't understand.

I know being brought up in the religion changes things a lot and of course takes away a lot of the choice ... but once people can make the choice, what is the reasoning to stay in a religion that constantly talks against who people actually are?

This applies to groups other that the WTS as well.

steve2

Well said Simon. More generally, what self-respecting person stays where he or she is not wanted? Simple as that.

cultBgone

You know....what's really amazing is just how overly concerned people are about the lifestyles and actions of OTHER PEOPLE! Saying that gays shouldn't have the right to marry is like saying that no one else is allowed to eat cookies because you're on a diet. People need to start living their own lives with integrity and compassion, and stop worrying about everyone else.

For those choosing to believe the bible, the basic message Jesus clearly laid out was to Love Your Neighbors As Yourself. Simply put, we are to show real kindness to everyone and treat them in a loving way. Jesus reserved his condemnation for those twisting religious doctrine for their own benefit. He showed compassion to everyone else.

Why waste time worrying about what other people do or who they are or what their sexual preferences are? If we all spent that time appreciating each other instead, think of the possibilities. The world is a wondrous place full of things we have yet to totally comprehend.

Have a wondrous day.

Aunt Fancy

Steve2 what a loving mother you had. That is very unusual for her generation plus the fact she was a JW. It is horrible how many are treated.

My sister is gay and it was hidden from me because of the religion, she figured I would judge her (My family were never JW's). Fifteen years ago she broke up with her girlfriend and she was devastated and I made my other sister tell me what was going on. Come to find out her ex girlfriend was minipulating my sister and telling her she would tell me she was gay and that I would hate her. Instead I wrote her a very loving letter telling her no matter what I still love her and I will never turn my back on her. I was still a JW at the time but I could not treat my sister in any other way but loving.

Gay people should have the same rights as the rest of us, it is awful that people still bully and attack them.

This weeks #2 & #3 talk on homosexuality

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