If 7 trillion is unpayable then why not 14 trillion? What I'm saying is, who are these people that are owed money and why and when would they try to collect?
WORLD OF LIES COMING UNRAVELED
by You Know 155 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
You Know
If 7 trillion is unpayable then why not 14 trillion? What I'm saying is, who are these people that are owed money and why and when would they try to collect?
The whole capitalist system is based upon debt. Investors in effect loan money to companies in hopes of gaining a profit. That invested money becomes a debt for the company, which they are obligated to pay in the form of a quarterly dividend to equity holders and interest to bond holders. And even if you are not a direct investor, if you have a pension program or a 401K, more than likely the guy who manages your fund has bought the debt of some company by buying their bonds. So, it's a system-wide problem. Even if a person decideds to play it safe and keep their money in a bank, that bank is exposed to potential losses that could wipe-out your savings. What you are proposing, in essence, is declaring the system bankrupt, which sounds dangerously like the lunatic Lyndon LaRouche's call for putting the whole thing in receivership. LOL / You Know
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/markets/marketfeatures/10029399.html
-
You Know
Here's a link for you. Sort of like Mount Vesuvius rumbling while the locals insist that she hasn't blown yet and probably won't. / You Know
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_2087000/2087409.stm
-
dubla
yk-
i realize that calling me delusional is one of the ways you can discredit me (in your mind), but the logic behind your statements is severely flawed, and ill tell you why.
Technically, yes. Although I wouldn't use the word "believe" in the past tense.
first off, i want to address this, then we will get into your faulty logic. you do know i was only kidding about others being delusional, right? i was poking fun at the way you take past predictions about the market and use them against the predictors (calling them conmen and such), when you in fact have made a hundred predictions that havent remotely come true. i know yours are different, and its not the same, blah blah, but i was only tossing a little humor your way with those statements.
now on to your logic of me and my "delusions".....
According to that definiton and your own view of the markets, ....you are certifiably delusional.
we can stop right here....no need for the rest of your post. my "view of the markets"? i assume you mean the comment i made about confidence levels falling, and how that probably means a bull market is ahead.......well, one thing you have to remember, is that for it to fall perfectly into pattern, the confidence levels would have to fall through the floor from where they are now. they are NO WHERE NEAR their lows, the lows that preceeded the big bull markets. for one thing, we had (technically) a bear market from 1972-1982. that was 10 YEARS before the confidence levels finally hit rock bottom, and then the bulls ran. so for you to talk about my "view of the markets", as if i think we are at the end of this bear market run is just stupid. maybe i should be more careful in qualifying my remarks......but i did say "if" the confidence levels continue to fall its "all the more reason.....etc". theres no saying they will. hell, a month after the biggest terrorist attack in history the confidence levels were already soaring again, so who knows. personally, i have no idea if the market is going to go up from here, or go sideways for 10 years, or go straight down and crash. i have said MANY MANY times to you personally (several on the wager thread alone) that it wouldnt surprise me one bit if the markets crashed, completely. so how am i delusional? i believe if you simply look back a couple posts on this thread alone, youll see i talked about the possibility of the dow dropping to 5000 (which would probably put the nasdaq around 500).....yet my view of the markets makes me delusional? you cant run with one statement yk, go back and check all of our old arguments, and youll see i havent made ONE definitive prediction about the downtrend being over......and if i HAD to guess, id say its not over yet, not by a long shot. i do think we will have tradeable rallies in the meantime though, but i think weve got awhile yet before the markets turn for the good (for an extended stretch). you might be interested to know that i dont discount your theory on ge, jp morgan, etc., either. it really wouldnt surprise me to see some of the big ones go, and thats why i left open the possibility of the dow hitting 5000 (or lower, who knows). if ge goes, i think the market will promptly drop a good 2000 points, minimum. i still hold out hope that the big guns like ge dont have these same problems, but im realistic, and i can see just like any other intelligent person, that when theres one bad apple, theres a bunch....even the simplest of investors are seeing that now....even cnbc cant hide it. so, having refreshed your memory about my true "view of the markets", please find another reason to call me delusional......youve never been short of those, lol.
aa
Edited by - dubla on 3 July 2002 10:10:39
-
You Know
i assume you mean the comment i made about confidence levels falling, and how that probably means a bull market is ahead.......well, one thing you have to remember, is that for it to fall perfectly into pattern, the confidence levels would have to fall through the floor from where they are now.
The fact that you would use terms like "confidence levels" and refer to patterns, as if a perfect pattern could be possibly predicting another bull market, is proof that you are still laboring under a wide spread delusion. There are no patterns that can predict the behavior of something that has never existed before. And, as I have explained to you on many occasions, the present global financial system, in all of it's sophistry and complexity, has only existed for about 10 years, and yet you still prefer the delusion that the markets are going through a typical bull/bear cycle. That, of course, is nonsense. But, millions and millions of people have been deluded into such thinking, so you are not alone in that respect.
that was 10 YEARS before the confidence levels finally hit rock bottom, and then the bulls ran.
Confidence or lack of it has very little to do with it. "Confidence levels" on the Titanic were high even after the captain gave the order to abandon the doomed vessel, because people were under the delusion that the ship really was "unsinkable."
i believe if you simply look back a couple posts on this thread alone, youll see i talked about the possibility of the dow dropping to 5000 (which would probably put the nasdaq around 500).....yet my view of the markets makes me delusional?
Yes, you are laboring under the popular delusion that this is simply a down cycle for the stock market and not a systemic collapse of the global financial system and all that goes with it.
i do think we will have tradeable rallies in the meantime though, but i think weve got awhile yet before the markets turn for the good
LOL Thus, the delusion persists. What do you plan on using for currency, toilet paper?
i still hold out hope that the big guns like ge dont have these same problems, but im realistic, and i can see just like any other intelligent person, that when theres one bad apple, theres a bunch....
That's what I mean by delusional. GE, JP Morgan, Citi Group, and Merrill Lynch are the heart and soul of the American financial system. That means that they are at the very foundation of a mountain of unpayable debt. In fact, through their derivative obligations they are on the hooks to insure that others get paid when defaults occur, to the tune of several tens of trillions of dollars. They can only cover a very tiny percent of the notional value of that. If one of them blows out the DOW won't just retreat to a certain level, money itself will simply become non-negotiable. Thrown into the street is the way the Scriptures describe the end of the present financial system. That you would "hold out hope" that they are not ground zero for the debt implosion indicates that you want desperately to believe a lie---a delusion. Because ultimately, in the event of a catastrophic collapse, you will have to come to terms with The truth. That has to be an absolutely terrifying prospect for someone who has invested their entire life into this system of things.
having refreshed your memory about my true "view of the markets", please find another reason to call me delusional......
I did. You gave me fresh fodder to make the case that your delusion is even more pervasive than I had originally thought. LOL / You Know
Edited by - You Know on 3 July 2002 13:45:5
-
You Know
Here Dubula, you my enjoy reading this piece, called: "The End of a Delusion."
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2002/2905econ_delusion.html
/ You Know
-
dubla
yk-
The fact that you would use terms like "confidence levels"
confidence levels can be and are measured....its not a term i just made up, its a statistical fact.
as if a perfect pattern could be possibly predicting another bull market, is proof that you are still laboring under a wide spread delusion.
actually, its never a "perfect pattern", but yes there are striking similarities in every bear market and every bull market.
That, of course, is nonsense.
its only "of course" nonsense to you, larouche, and the band of merry lackies that follows his blubberings. when the dollar becomes worthless, then you can tell me how much nonsense it all was. of course, when that happens, the internet will no doubt collapse, so i guess you wont get the chance to yell "i told you all so!!", lol.
"Confidence levels" on the Titanic were high even after the captain gave the order to abandon the doomed vessel, because people were under the delusion that the ship really was "unsinkable."
your little titanic illustration only reinforces what ive been saying, namely that confidence levels are almost always wrong.
What do you plan on using for currency, toilet paper?
during the next tradeable rally? im quite sure the dollar will still be worth something then........are you now predicting the dollar will become worthless before any further market rallies? thats a hilarious prediction if so.....please confirm so i can refer back to it later. (btw, a "tradeable" rally is a move of 1000 pts or more on the dow, generally).
That you would "hold out hope" that they are not ground zero for the debt implosion indicates that you want desperately to believe a lie---a delusion.
just becuase i, and most other sane people, dont buy into your "collapse" scenario doesnt mean im "desperately trying to believe" anything. i enjoy our little exchanges, but its not like i lose sleep over these gloom and doom scenarios you and larouche cook up. when i was a brainwashed jw, was i desperately trying to hold on to a lie then? looking back now, and knowing it was all lies, i dont think i really had much of a choice but to believe them.....it was engrained in me from childhood. so even if your economic collapse prediction came true, i wouldnt exactly look back and say, "gee, i was really trying to hold on to a lie there".....this type of argument is your way of trying to discredit everyone who doesnt buy the swampland you are trying to sell them.
you will have to come to terms with The truth. That has to be an absolutely terrifying prospect for someone who has invested their entire life into this system of things.
actually, i invested my first 20 years in the jw religion, so that statement is a bit off. if during my lifetime, armageddon comes, only god will judge the hearts of mankind, and only god will judge my heart. so no, its not terrifying at all......im sure god knows my true heart condition, which has very little to do with my view of the markets.
aa
-
dubla
yk-
Here Dubula, you my enjoy reading this piece, called: "The End of a Delusion."
well, i clicked on your link, and got as far as this statement....
"if the reader is patient with me...."
then i got impatient, lol. no, actually it was by that point i realized it was going to simply be an extended version of one of your little speeches (read: blubberings) on here.
btw, youve still never answered my question, which was (revised):
if you honestly believe im a delusional pathological liar (and a fool), that i have such severe brain-lock that reasoning with me is pointless, and that im so far below you intellectually that dealing with me is an embarrassing mistake on your part, why do you even address me personally? you see, considering the statements youve made (if they were honest), you surely are not addressing me to try and reason with me, right? because i am beyond that in your mind (too far gone in the delusion). so the only possible reason you could have to address me (as you have many times on this thread) is to try and discredit my words. you must think my reasoning and sharing of historical facts poses some sort of threat to you little mission..?.
aa
-
Crazy151drinker
NUMNUTS/YOU KNOW/ SNAKE
The economic conditions that plagued GERMANY after WWI were brought about by the Allies in WWI. They demanded that GERMANY pay for the entire war (which of course was impossible). Thats what brought about the GERMAN depression (which had nothing to do with the US depression of 1929- Which in reality helped the United States with new SEC rules and numerious Gov. Projects such as dams and roads---oh no electricity is bad! Its not in the bible) and the rise of Hitler. Your poor knowledge of history shows once again. After WWII, the US rebuilt Japan, Germany, and Italy. The US knew that if the Axis was forced to pay for the war they would be bankrupt and the cycle of hate would start again. The post WWII economy BOOMED not GLOOMED.
The UPS and DOWNS are called THE BUSINESS CYCLE, not END OF WORLD. Take a business class (OH NO EDUCATION) and learn something.
-
You Know
confidence levels can be and are measured....its not a term i just made up, its a statistical fact.
I know. You are just parroting what you have heard. Measuring confidence levels is basically taking a measurment of how successful the delsuion has been at any given point.
actually, its never a "perfect pattern", but yes there are striking similarities in every bear market and every bull market.
Yes, but bull and bear is irrelevant in the face of a global financial collapse. The stock market is only a small part of the system.
when the dollar becomes worthless, then you can tell me how much nonsense it all was. of course, when that happens, the internet will no doubt collapse, so i guess you wont get the chance to yell "i told you all so!!", lol.
Yes, but I will still have the satisfaction of knowing that you know I told you so. LOL
your little titanic illustration only reinforces what ive been saying, namely that confidence levels are almost always wrong.
LOL, Okay.
during the next tradeable rally? im quite sure the dollar will still be worth something then........are you now predicting the dollar will become worthless before any further market rallies?
You said that there would be rallies until the markets turned for good. There no doubt will be stock market rallies in the interim, but there will be no return to prosperity, if that's what you meant. That's completely out of the question. Once the money supply has been so vastly inflated, as it has been, you can't just go back to business as usual after the bubble blows. It doesn't work that way. It is an inevitablitiy that the dollar will soon become completely worthless. Again, you are laboring under a delusion.
just becuase i, and most other sane people, dont buy into your "collapse" scenario doesnt mean im "desperately trying to believe" anything.
You desperately want to believe that the system is going to go on. Therefore you, and many others, embrace the delusion that is offered by the media. The Scriptures, on the other hand, foretell a catastrophic sudden collapse of the global system of things. And, I have presented several realistic scenarios whereby that can come about on any given day. Of course you don't believe it, but that doesn't alter reality in any way, shape, or form.
when i was a brainwashed jw, was i desperately trying to hold on to a lie then? looking back now, and knowing it was all lies, i dont think i really had much of a choice but to believe them.....
It wasn't all lies. Again, you are deluded. Do you imagine that apostates have some how removed Jehovah from his heavens, or that Christ's kingdom is now an unreality because of Ray Franz's little tattle tales, or that the Anglo-American empire has not arrived at the end of the line of human rulership? Ridiculers haven't in any way nullified the truth of God's word. They have only themselves fulfilled it. And, we are now, at long last, facing the end of the system that Jehovah's Witnesses have been preaching about for years. You and all apostates have been very badly deluded.
/ You Know