WORLD OF LIES COMING UNRAVELED
by You Know 155 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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dubla
the nice thing for gloom and doomers, is the fact that there will ALWAYS be lots of "reasons" to be negative about this or that, the economy, corporate america, global crises, wars, natural disasters, etc, etc, etc, etc...........if y2k doesnt a disaster make, then move on to the next one. if the central banks dont go bankrupt in january 2002, move on to the next one. if japan doesnt liquidate all its u.s. equities and crash the market, move on to the next one. if pakistan and india dont go nuclear after all, move on to the next one. OH, worldcom, and volatile markets....the perfect time for another dose of gloom and doom!
the so-called economic "recovery."
well, its not so-called, its a fact. you see, economic recession and economic recovery are calculated terms, not just nonsense as yk would have us believe. click here for a respite from the negative news that yk tosses around to serve his scare tactics >>> http://money.cnn.com/2002/06/27/news/economy/economy/index.htm
Each day brings new revelations of massive corporate fraud that has resulted in billions of dollars being lost by investors.
and each new corporate fraud exposed brings us one step closer to a new form of corporate accounting regulation that in the long haul will only make our economy that much stronger.
, the world markets are, again, melting like an ice cream cone in July.
melting? ah, thats a bit of an exaggeration isnt it? of course, this is coming from the same poster who tried to convince us that the market action last september was the onset of a major crash........and instead the market rallied (as it always does) some 2000+ points.
Now, though, confidence in the game is lost
dont you know thats when bottoms are set into place? surely yk, with all your vast knowledge of the markets, you realize that when there is nothing but bad news, no buyers, and the last remaining investors decide its time to throw in the towel, this is where market bottoms are made. we do not have a definite bottom set in place as of yet.....the dow could drop to 5000 and it wouldnt surprise me one bit. history shows though, that when everyone decides its time to give up on the market, thats when the real bulls start to run again. of course, this time is different, right? of course it is, lol. and if the market rallies this year, and overcomes the negative news its staring at right now....then just move on to the next one.
aa
Edited by - dubla on 27 June 2002 13:33:29
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bjc2012
YK,
The new covenant of Christ established on Pentecost with his anointed ones is the basis for cleansing and restoring Jehovah's sons and daughters. Having a new heart and a new spirit simply means that Jehovah will provide recuperation according to out faith in Christ's shed blood.
Paul said:
"For if we (anointed) practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice [of Jesus] for sins left." (Hebrews 10:26)
Jesus' sacrifice cannot save an anointed christian if with accurate knowledge, they practice sin. The apostle John backs this thought up by saying anointed christians all possess a "reproductive seed" within them that keeps them on track with God. So if they sin and embark on a course of sin, say practice sin, they are without a doubt, doing it deliberately since God is constantly letting them know they are repeatedly offending Him and thus "grieving his spirit". (Ephesians 4:30; 1 John 3:9)
So YK, you cannot have it both ways. If they are anointed, then they must have accurate knowledge. That means they are "sinning" with knowledge, in which case the blood of Jesus does not help them. Or you have to admit they are not anointed and so do not have accurate knowledge as of yet. In that case, then forgiven could be granted. But they cannot be "anointed" and at the same time lack crucial "accurate knowledge" while practicing sin before God. That combination doesn't work.
Simply put, one can't be anointed without having "accurate knowledge" and the spirit actively leading him into greater truth. However, if one doesn't have the anointing upon himself, he can be forgiven a "practice of sin" since they are not directly "grieving" the reproductive seed of the holy spirit, which is implanted within all anointed one, which means blasphemy of God's spirit. This is your only possibility for forgiveness that exists for the sinful "apostate nation" of Jehovah's Witnesses. (Isaiah 10:6)
And this would explain why Jehovah's Witnesses are sooooo stupid, soooo dumb and ignorant about things. It explains why they need a "new heart" and a "new spirit" within them. Admittedly if they are "anonted", then this would a horrible spiritual condition to be in, as a spiritual leader of the world of mankind! As a spokeman for God. I repeat, the spirit leads them, and God puts "His words in their mouth" and they now can properly represent Him to the nations. And this spiritual condition makes them worthy to lead the nations before God. They, thus do not teach falsehoods and mislead people. Israel will have to repent of their "transgressions" against God, before He will bestow this Spokesman Leadership role upon them as a nation. The ancient prophet said of repentant Israel,
"And to Zion the Repurchaser will certainly come, and to those turning from transgression in Jacob, is the utterance of Jehovah. And as for me, this is my covenant with them, Jehovah has said. My spirit that is upon you and my words that I have put in your mouth -- they will not be removed from your mouth or from the mouth of your offspring or from the mouth of the offspring of your offspring, Jehovah has said, from now on even to time indefinite." (Isaiah 59:20, 21)
Israel must be restored spiritually, before the Spokeperson role is bestowed upon the nation, the above prophecy says. They are "restored" before God "puts His Words in their mouth" as of a true prophet. They will at that time, speak "truth", and experience the "change to a pure language" of truth. They will speak truth to each other at that time, when God restores them.
Zephaniah 3:9 says:
"For then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder."
Now, I know you think this prophecy applies to Jehovah's Witnesses and not to the world in general, right? The "shoulder to shoulder" unity and all. That can only be Jehovah's Witnesses, according to you. So then you must be saying Jehovah's Witnesses are going to receive a "change to a pure language". You have to say this.
But why is this needed?
Well, it is because they really need it. They need a "change", to speaking real truth. A true "change" is really needed too, since they've been lying the whole way. So a "change" is long over due and needed for lying Israel.
But before God grants the "change to a pure language", real Godly repentance must come forth from the nation. Then, God puts "His spirit" upon them. And they become God's Prophet Nation, God's Spokeperson Nation to all other nations upon earth "to time indefinite". That's the order of things, Isaiah 59:20, 21 shows.
We remember "anointed" christians of the first century were not taught outright lies and falsehoods as spiritual doctrines, like 1914. Neither did the apostles practice lying to one another, as the Governing Body does today. Case in point, all of the lying over the NGO Library Card Defense, called "Theocratic Strategy". But of course, this lying was to the brothers, instead of to the world, wasn't it? And that is even worse. So they lie, when its convenient. They lie to the brothers and the world, when its convenient. But first century christians did not practice such things and certainly not the apostles. The is because first century christians had an "anointing of Him [God]" which was teaching them truth, always. Peter backed up John's statement by saying the "anointed" had the "incorruptible seed" within them "through the word of the living and enduring God." Therefore, "anointed" christians did not "follow artfully contrived false stories", like 1914. (1 Peter 1:23; 2 Peter 1:16) "Anointed" christians were truly "led by the spirit" using the "enduring Word of God" to reveal any false teacher or teaching. They knew how to "test the spirit" and "test the teaching", unlike "airhead" so-called "anointed" Jehovah's Witnesses of today. (See 2 Corinthians 13:5; 1 John 4:1; Revelation 2:2.) This shows them to be true sons of God. Truly "anointed" ones did not a need for anyone to teach them anything, really. That's because the spirit taught them "all things". They were self-sufficient because of the implanting of the "spirit" within them. If by chance one person got out of line, the others could correct him. As Paul corrected Peter. "Anointed" ones had a built-in safety valve system within the congregational arrangement. Such a God-provided safety system, implanted within each and every "anointed" christian, would have surely prevented the untold brutality, tyranny and outright fleecing of the sheep, as we see practiced on a wholesale level, on the part of the wicked WTS Headquarters staff and company over these many years. (1 John 2:20, 27)
So, if Jehovah's Witnesses are to escape this terrible judgment from God, as described for "anointed" christians at Hebrews 10:26, either one of the two following conditions must be present:
(a) Either Jehovah's Witnesses do not have an "accurate knowledge of the truth" while they are practicing sin
which means of course they are simply not "anointed" as of yet. Or,
(b) The Jehovah's Witnesses simply have not practiced sin at all, while possessing this spirit-given accurate knowledge of truth -- like 1914. Since you contend that the truly "anointed" are among Jehovah's Witnesses as a body.
But, it is very easy to prove Jehovah's Witnesses are practicing sin. You admit that yourself.
So, are they "practicing sin" with "truth", with "accurate knowledge"? Don't you claim that the doctrine of 1914 is not a false teaching, but is Divine Truth? So, you believe Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching "truth" with this 1914 doctrine, for over 125 years -- Your identification mark that they are the "true religion".
However, if Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching "truth", then why do they need spiritual "recuperation" as you say above. And what always comes with spiritual "recuperation", I ask? Notice the following prophecy:
"Here I am bringing up for her a recuperation and health; and I will heal them and reveal to them an abundance of peace and TRUTH." (Jeremiah 33:6)
The prophecy reveals the "recuperation" of Israel will be accompanied with the giving of "an abundance of peace and truth." This being the case, how can one say Israel today has "truth"? You simply can't say it. You can't even call it "The Truth", as most Jehovah's Witnesses do. This is especially true with all of that lying going on at headquarters of 1914, NGO/UN G.B. 10-year affair, endless false prophecies applied to Christendom in every book they ever printed for over a 100 years, and on and on. The list never stops. We are speaking of the "Israel" that wickedly are the ones who haughtily transgress Jehovah by way of "speaking the lie and the tricky tongue". How can you say "tricky tongue" Israel has "truth" before God? The "woman" who is chased to the wilderness does not have "truth". The "woman" has to "fed" by God, while there. She does not have truth. -- Jeremiah 30:17; Zephaniah 3:11-13; Rev. 12: 6, 14
We know this because you've admitted the real "truth" comes when the "spirit of truth" is to "guide them into all truth" in the future. (John 16:13)
So then, that is the problem in itself. The "anointed" of the first century had the truth and were guided by it, since the "reproductive seed" was implanted within them. But Jehovah's Witnesses cannot prove such a thing exists for them today. You certainly don't have it, as I would not find this conversation and discussion necessary for you today. But you simply "Don't know" any better, contrary to your namesake.
Remember, it was said of the the truly "anointed",
"And you have an anointing from the holy one; all of you have knowledge...And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him."
John said, the "anointing from him" was "IN YOU". Inside of the individual christian. And the "reproductive seed" of the spirit "is teaching you about ALL THINGS and is true and is no lie". The "anointing from God" does not teach lies -- lies like 1914! And further, that "anointing from Him" teaches the anonted "ABOUT ALL THINGS" -- all things.
But you have already admitted, Jehovah's Witnesses, under the present guidance of the Holy Spirit, have not learned "all things", have they? Jehovah's Witnesses do not know "all things", even though they claim to have been anointed for 125 years and have been "led by the spirit" all that time. After 125 years, surely the "spirit" should have taught them "all things" by now. (Romans 8:14)
No but instead, they are "sinning", "transgressing" constantly. So much so, they have to be "chased" off their own land and banished from before God's sight. They have to be "fed", educated in the wilderness. (Rev. 12:6, 14) And you say these are the "anointed", who have to be "fed" in the wilderness? What?!? These are the "anointed" who are sinning, transgressing with idolatry -- sinning and lying for over 125 years. You say they are "sinning" as anointed christians, repeatedly without ever blaspheming the spirit. The same "spirit" that is currently trying to teach them, but they are not listening -- Impossible!
Close scrutiny reveals that Jehovah's Witnesses only teach lies. Lies like 1914. And they have been teaching that for over 125 years. And nobody, including God's spirit can't correct them. Only a trip to the "wilderness" will solve the problem. (I know you don't like to discuss this subject, but 1914 is a lie, and very easy to prove too. If you think you can handle the "heat", try out this next thread and we will see.)
[1914 Lie Exposed: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26176&site=3]
Also one more thing will help to remove all doubt about Israel's true spiritual condition before discipline. The "curse" that God puts upon His people. Jehovah's Witnesses are going to receive the "curse" from God for violating His Law. That will ultimately prove, they are transgressors of God's covenant, and in need of another covenant arrangement. Is it any wonder, the "curse" coming from disobedience of the Law Covenant, and is most fittingly placed upon the holy city, Jerusalem. And we know, this very "curse" will have to be removed from upon the nation. But by what means? Certainly not by Jesus coming back to earth, and becoming a "curse" all over again for the nation. No, certainly not that. (Galatians 3:13; Revelation 22:3)
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 27 June 2002 14:27:8
Edited by - bjc2012 on 27 June 2002 14:44:33
Edited by - bjc2012 on 27 June 2002 14:50:39
Edited by - bjc2012 on 27 June 2002 14:59:16
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Cygnus
What I find most disturbing about YK's post is his comparison to the events after Russell's death. The Society for many years after Chuck assumed room temperature strongly maintained that Russell was the wise slave of Matthew 24:45 and that anyone who strayed from his teachings were the apostates. YK has been told this many times in the past and yet he continues to post wrong information. Such intellectual dishonesty, in my opinion, casts doubt on everything he says.
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You Know
CYKNUS:
The Society for many years after Chuck assumed room temperature strongly maintained that Russell was the wise slave of Matthew 24:45 and that anyone who strayed from his teachings were the apostates.
That can't be true. The Russellites no doubt maintained that Russell was the slave both before, and after his death, but they were the ones who turned out to be apostates. Rutherford and the others apparently knew otherwise, which is why they fought so hard to counter the evil influence of the Russelites at that time. Now of course, as I said, the Russellites are irrelevant as far as Jehovah's Witnesses are concerned. It wasn't that Russell's teachings were wrong, it is that, well, obviously, dead men have no authority. And, of course, that's why the Devil wanted Jehovah's people to follow a dead man. But the faithful slave has authority over God's house up until the master arrives, if the household goes on, so does the slave's authority over it. The brothers back then were not nearly as stupid as you imagine. / You Know
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Fredhall
Valis,
Your world is fun of dreams. Jesus is alive and well.
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AlanF
Booby Brain said:
: That can't be true.
It is true, dorkbrain. You want quotes from Watch Towers up through at least 1925 to prove it?
: The Russellites
Rutherford and his coterie of nincompoops were Russellites, you fool. Rutherford himself explicitly taught that Russell had been "the faithful and wise servant". Afterwards, he taught that Russell was directing the Watchtower organization from heaven. And yeah, Boob Brain, it's in The Watch Tower.
: no doubt maintained that Russell was the slave both before, and after his death, but they were the ones who turned out to be apostates.
It's true: Rutherford, Van Amburgh, Woodworth and all those losers were apostates.
: Rutherford and the others apparently knew otherwise, which is why they fought so hard to counter the evil influence of the Russelites at that time.
Rutherford didn't start trying to do any such thing until around 1923, when he saw that he wasn't getting enough adoration. Eventually he figured out that transferring the mantle of "faithful servant" to himself via "the Society" would get him what he wanted, and that's what he set about doing, by discrediting many of Russell's favorite doctrines.
: Now of course, as I said, the Russellites are irrelevant as far as Jehovah's Witnesses are concerned.
No, they're very relevant. It was Russell who set the organizational tone where lying to get what the leaders wanted became a hallmark of the organization.
: It wasn't that Russell's teachings were wrong,
Tell that to the Judge. He abandoned a great many of the Society's early teachings. Abandoning pyramidology in late 1928 was a big deal and a lot of Bible Students quit over it. Same thing with abandoning Russell as the FDS.
: And, of course, that's why the Devil wanted Jehovah's people to follow a dead man.
Well then, it appears that the Devil was working his plan from Russell's death until past 1925. Rutherford was his agent. Of course, the Bible Students had been following Russell as God's only earthly spokesman since the early 1880s. I suppose that after 1923, God overruled the Devil and made Rutherford turn around. Of course, it could have been Rutherford's love of strong drink, whereas Russell had been a teetotaler, that really turned the old Judge around.
: But the faithful slave has authority over God's house up until the master arrives, if the household goes on, so does the slave's authority over it.
You don't seem to realize: Russell's wife came up with that ridiculous doctrine, Russell latched on to it, and Rutherford put it in roughly today's form. But all the while that the men who supposedly comprised it were being appointed to that position, they were teaching and doing extremely stupid things. Obviously you think that God is so stupid as to appoint a bunch of idiots as his representatives. No surprise here.
: The brothers back then were not nearly as stupid as you imagine.
No? Look at the organization they created. If not stupid, they were criminals masquerading as God's spokesmen.
AlanF
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hillary_step
The brothers back then were not nearly as stupid as you imagine. / You Know
Even if they were not, they have certainly made up for it ever since.
HS
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Fredhall
AlanF,
I see someone is a little jealous of Russell, VanAmburgh, and JUDGE Rutherford.