144,001
Did God tell you not to disclose this to the "ignorant" people on this site?
Yes. "Do not give what is holy to the dogs" is the exact injunction if you must know. / You Know
WORLD OF LIES COMING UNRAVELED
by You Know 155 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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You Know
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dubla
yk-
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs" is the exact injunction if you must know. / You Know
and yet youve said more than once that your "target audience" is not us "apostates", or "dogs".........so, when your "target audience" is reached through your post, and a member of that "target audience" contacts you privately and asks you for the specifics, do you (or would you) divulge this top secret information to them? or do you treat them as undeserving "dogs" as well? just wondering. personally, i believe your talk of a "target audience" is a complete lie, and i think its pretty obvious you are indeed targeting "apostates" to ridicule and argue with.....it seems it gives you some sort of sick satisfaction to constantly laugh at and belittle the majority of the posters who respond to you......and yet you accuse us of being mere "ridiculers", which i will continue to point out as hypocrisy.
aa
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Jewel
I thought it was Satan that tested Jehovah's people. If Satan is testing Jehovah's people and Jehovah is testing Jehovah's people, what's the difference?
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bjc2012
YK,
"In those days and at that time, is the utterance of Jehovah, the sons of Israel, they and the sons of Judah together, will come. They will walk, weeping as they walk, and for Jehovah their God they will seek. To Zion they will keep asking the way, with their faces in that direction, saying Come and let us join ourselves to Jehovah in an indefinitely lasting covenant that will not be forgotten." (Jeremiah 50:4,5)
Israel is "weeping". Israel is "weeping as they walk". Israel is desperate, and in desperate need for help. This is because they realize they have completely failed God, the prophecy shows. Clearly, in this prophecy of the future, Israel is attempting to "join themselves to Jehovah" in a covenant, since they have been detached. This is not a restrengthening of existing one between the two parties. But this is a new beginning for Israel. A new start. A new covenant arrangement. This is something that the nation must do. We notice the nation is so lost, they have to ask directions just to get back to their homeland. They are a totally lost people, who have lost their covenant with God because of bad conduct. Their "transgressions" are so great, that their previous relationship with Jehovah has been completely severed, completely detached. Thus the need to "join themselves" again to God.
Interesting the prophet Ezekiel foretold the following for repentant Israel,
"And I will take you out the nations and collect you together out of all the lands and bring you in upon your soil. And I will sprinkle upon you clean water, and you will become clean; from all your impurities and from all your dungy idols I shall cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I shall put inside you, and I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And my spirit I shall put inside you, and I will act so that in my regulations you will, and my judicial decision you will keep and actually carry out. And you will certainly dwell in the land that I gave to your forefathers, and you must become my people and I myself shall become your God." (Ezekiel 36:24-28)
In the above scene, we can see it is an entirely earthly scene. Israel must "become God's people" while on earth. And then, He will "become their God", again on earth. Jehovah knows that in order to fully accomplish this for the nation, they must have a "new spirit" and a "new heart" put within them, in order to learn to obey Jehovah in all things and keep His covenant, regulations and judicial decisions. The "old heart" and "old spirit" failed Israel. They broke God's law, completely. So God sees the need of a "new heart" and a "new spirit" for Israel showing, they do not "know Jehovah" at all and have failed him completely. Thus, in this way, these powerful words remind us of the Covenant promise given thru Jeremiah which said,
"For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days, is the utterance of Jehovah. I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people." (Jeremiah 31:33)
The words "They will become my people and I will become their God" shows they have utterly failed God, under the old covenant arrangement. These words help us to see, another covenant arrangement is definitely involved and needed. Because today, we see the same, identical need in Israel, as shown by both prophetic accounts. That is the definite need for a "new heart" and a "new spirit" within them, as a nation. A need for another covenant arrangement. Surely, the need for a "new heart" and "new spirit" go hand in hand with violating all of God's "regulations" and "judicial decisions" thus making the necessity for receiving of another covenant arrangement. The reason we know this is absolutely necessary, is the mention of the "outpouring of God's spirit" upon the nation, after reconciliation is achieved. We notice it is mentioned above in Ezekiel's prophecy. The outpouring of God's Holy Spirit upon the nation shows the Divine acceptance of a renewed spiritual relationship God, where they can "become His people, and He becomes their God." This is why Joel says in the last days, Jehovah would after disciplining His people, do the following:
"I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will certainly prophesy...even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit." (Joel 2:28, 29)
After disciplining Israel in the last days, and after God cleanses Israel of sin, He will then "pour out his spirit" upon the entire nation in a new covenant arrangement, as it says, just before the "great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah". (Joel 2:31)
And all of these prophetic words and statements of the prophets of old, agree with John's future vision of Israel in the book of Revelation, when he heard the words,
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he [God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." (Rev. 21:3, 4)
Again, the same words uttered, "and they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them." No doubt this is an earthly scene John saw for the restoration of earthly "Israel", who has sinned greatly before God. The prophets all speak of the same incident in Israel's life. A traumatic experience of severe discipline. So then, the "death" and "mourning" spoken of above, then will be done away FROM ISRAEL since,
"No more will violence be heard in your land [Israel], despoiling or breakdown within your boundaries. And you will certainly call your own walls salvation and your gates praise...No more will your sun set, nor will your moon go on the wane; for Jehovah himself will become for you an indefinitely lasting light, and the DAYS OF YOUR MOURNING WILL HAVE COME TO COMPLETION. And as for your people, all of them will be righteous; for time indefinite they will hold possess of the land..." (Isaiah 60:18-21)
Clearly, this is an earthly scene. An earthly scene of how Israel actually comes to be "righteous". How "Israel" comes to "hold possession of the land", for "time indefinite". Forevermore. This scene above shows us how God restores spiritual Israel, upon its own soil -- right here on earth. When there will be "no more pain" and suffering upon ISRAEL, after she endures her much deserved discipline from God. The scene describes how there will be no more "tears", "outcry" and "death" for Israel, after they receive of God's discipline for them. This is because,
"...the sons of Israel will come back and certainly look for Jehovah their God [since they are lost], and for David their king; and they will certainly come QUIVERING TO JEHOVAH and to his goodness in the final part of the days." (Hosea 3:5)
There is no question, Israel will need a new "covenant" arrangement for the will of Jehovah to take place and be fully realized, as outlined above. No question at all a "new" covenant is needed to bring Israel to the point where all of Israel can be said to be truly "righteous" before God, with a "new heart" and a "new spirit". (Isaiah 60:21)
bjc
Edited by - bjc2012 on 27 June 2002 10:22:51
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CoolBreeze
Hey dubla, YK's target audience is YK. I have not seen anyone on this board who is more in live with their own verbage as YK.
Anton
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
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hillary_step
Yes, the Scriptures are pretty clear about that. God ALLOWS falsehood to persist for a particular purpose. Apostates are those who stumble over the such things and then use them to try and stumble others
A very, very strange set of ethics if I may say so.
God allows his only Organization on earth to become corrupt and guilty of lies and hypocrisy. He does this so that those who are outraged at the lies and hypocrisy are stumbled and leave his Organization and have then identified themselves as apostates worthy of eternal death.
So what you are saying is that God punishes those who cannot tolerate liars and hypocrites, and very soon will also punish those who have been liars and hypocrites, in fact the only ones he does not punish are those few, like yourself of course, who recognized the liars and hypocrites, did nothing about it but secretly kept all this knowledge to themselves.
And I always thought Christianity was actually rather simple, and only based on two commandmentslol
HS
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Sirona
You Know,
I think HS accurately assessed your comments about Jehovah allowing Lies and Deceit just to test JWs.
So moving on from that point: you said
The fact that you would blame God for the error of men is indicative of the mentality of those who are to be refined out of the organization by one means or the other.
Correction, I do not blame God for the error of men. I blame men - The Watchtower organisation. I do not believe that God is the originator of the Watchtower society.
Again you put words in my mouth with:
The fact that you would accuse God of being unloving and untruthful reveals that you do not know Jehovah, and therefore you are not in any position to judge those who do. Like Paul said: "The spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man."
I do not accuse God of being unloving or untruthful. I stated that BY YOUR DESCRIPTION of God, he would be unloving and untruthful. I believe your description of God to be flawed. I'm sure many people would agree that a God who deliberately allows lies, hypocrisy and deceit within his organisation on earth just to test people is pretty unloving. Also it would be untruthful in the sense that the organisation claims to be Gods clean people. All those poor JWs who have realised the hypocrisy either have to live with it or stand up against it. I for one will stand up against lies and wrongs. If YOUR God condemns me for that, then he isn't a very nice God, now is he?
I find it amazing that JWs and XJWs can be so totaly blind. Although I present God's word to you that says very clearly why God temporarily allows error and falsehood, you prefer to belief the lie. That's because it is much to painful for you to come to terms with the fact that you have left the truth and are actually an apostate in Jehovah's eyes. Or as Paul described your situation: "And they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive for the will of that one."
You present God's word with your tainted take on it. You present "The Bible according to You Know". Your reasoning is "strange" to say the least and your points are without any true basis. You then have the audacity to say we are in the snare of the devil for not believing you. LOL.
/ You Know
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You Know
Dubula asks:
and yet youve said more than once that your "target audience" is not us "apostates", or "dogs".........so, when your "target audience" is reached through your post, and a member of that "target audience" contacts you privately and asks you for the specifics, do you (or would you) divulge this top secret information to them?
That's top secret too. LOL / You Know
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dubla
That's top secret too. LOL / You Know
ah, of course....shouldve known.
actually, the reason you cant answer the question is because of what ive already laid out, namely that this idea of a "target audience" is nothing more than a ruse. for one thing, members of this "target audience" could only reach you by posting on a thread (considering your email is private), and how often do we really see this "target audience" posting to you? hmmm.....how about next to never, if ever. its a deceit tactic, to make it look as if you actually have a purpose here other than the mindless ridicule of "apostates". again, it is obviously fulfilling some sick need you have to belittle others (while shouting your gloom and doom blubberings of course)......but hey, at least it serves a purpose for the lurkers, to see you (a supposed jw) constantly discredited and exposed.
aa
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You Know
bjc2012
This is not a restrengthening of existing one between the two parties. But this is a new beginning for Israel. A new start. A new covenant arrangement.
That's false. It doesn't say anything about a "new covenant." You are reading that into that text.
They are a totally lost people, who have lost their covenant with God because of bad conduct. Their "transgressions" are so great, that their previous relationship with Jehovah has been completely severed, completely detached. Thus the need to "join themselves" again to God.
It doesn't say that either. You are assuming that. The basis for God granting repentence is the fac that they are in a new covenant. God's redemption is based upon the fact that his people are already in a covenant with him.
"And I will take you out the nations and collect you together out of all the lands and bring you in upon your soil. And I will sprinkle upon you clean water, and you will become clean; from all your impurities and from all your dungy idols I shall cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I shall put inside you, and I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And my spirit I shall put inside you, and I will act so that in my regulations you will, and my judicial decision you will keep and actually carry out. And you will certainly dwell in the land that I gave to your forefathers, and you must become my people and I myself shall become your God."
Precisely, again, there is no mention of a new covenant, merely that God would restore his people in order to fulfill the purpose of his covenant with the anointed. A refining work as I have highlighted already.
The words "They will become my people and I will become their God" shows they have utterly failed God, under the old covenant arrangement. These words help us to see, another covenant arrangement is definitely involved and needed.
It was only new from the standpoint of those in the old covenant. As it applies to those in the new covenant it means that Jehovah steps in a cleanses his organization and revitalizes it with his spirit in a way that he never has before.
After disciplining Israel in the last days, and after God cleanses Israel of sin, He will then "pour out his spirit" upon the entire nation in a new covenant arrangement, as it says, just before the "great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah". (Joel 2:31)
False. The fact that God pours out his spirit upon his sons and daughters, as well as his other servants, indicates that they are already anointed as sons of God when the outpouring takes place. That's because they are already in the new covenant when God pours out his restoring spirit upon us.
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he [God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." (Rev. 21:3, 4)
Again, the same words uttered, "and they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them." No doubt this is an earthly scene John saw for the restoration of earthly "Israel", who has sinned greatly before God. The prophets all speak of the same incident in Israel's life. A traumatic experience of severe discipline.
Again, no mention of a new covenant. Just Jehovah fulfilling the already established covnenat to bless all the nations by means of Christ's seed.
"No more will violence be heard in your land [Israel], despoiling or breakdown within your boundaries. And you will certainly call your own walls salvation and your gates praise...No more will your sun set, nor will your moon go on the wane; for Jehovah himself will become for you an indefinitely lasting light, and the DAYS OF YOUR MOURNING WILL HAVE COME TO COMPLETION. And as for your people, all of them will be righteous; for time indefinite they will hold possess of the land..." (Isaiah 60:18-21)
Clearly, this is an earthly scene. An earthly scene of how Israel actually comes to be "righteous". How "Israel" comes to "hold possession of the land", for "time indefinite". Forevermore. This scene above shows us how God restores spiritual Israel, upon its own soil -- right here on earth. When there will be "no more pain" and suffering upon ISRAEL, after she endures her much deserved discipline from God. The scene describes how there will be no more "tears", "outcry" and "death" for Israel, after they receive of God's discipline for them. This is because,
"...the sons of Israel will come back and certainly look for Jehovah their God [since they are lost], and for David their king; and they will certainly come QUIVERING TO JEHOVAH and to his goodness in the final part of the days." (Hosea 3:5)
Correct. Jehovah is yet to establish a spiritual paradise among his people where there will not exist one fornicator or apostate or faithless person among us.
There is no question, Israel will need a new "covenant" arrangement for the will of Jehovah to take place and be fully realized, as outlined above. No question at all a "new" covenant is needed to bring Israel to the point where all of Israel can be said to be truly "righteous" before God, with a "new heart" and a "new spirit". (Isaiah 60:21)
Nope. The new covenant of Christ established on Pentecost with his anointed ones is the basis for cleansing and restoring Jehovah's sons and daughters. Having a new heart and a new spirit simply means that Jehovah will provide recuperation according to out faith in Christ's shed blood. / You Know