Here's an excellent site by a Mormon "apostate". It really is uncanny how similar to the Watch Tower it all is.
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/
Expatbrit
LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN
by QUANTUM 109 Replies latest jw friends
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QUANTUM
I'll waste my time on this one:
PSEUDOXISTOS!!!!!!!
Let us say that the church was holding the gold plates and finally let them be examined.......Smith said that the writings were not of any known origin. ..reformed egyptain...he said.....in other words no one but God could inspire them to be translated....having said that..
those invited to view the plates may have the following to say
1) we cant read them because they are of an unknown language
2) how do we know these are the original plates Smith used....how can we be sure that as wealthy as the LDS church is, they didn't make these gold plates themselves and are now passing them off as the one Smith "claimed" to have?
what the evidence does show is that J. Smith produced a book he said was about several ancient peoples unknown at the time of the printing. He said an angel showed him where the record of these people could be found. Smith said that he was able to translate this unknown language by the gift and power of GOD. When he was done he published it and started to distribute it throughout the world. today more than One Hundred Million copies have been printed. He never made an apology of any kind for the book. It has stood up to every investigation made agaist it.
For example< how did Smith know the names of peoples and places which were not known by anyone in the modern age until their discoveries in the 20th century. just to mention a couple out of hundres of example which could be offered. ...show me any evidence that anyone alse has ever done anything to compare with such a feat.
Q!!!!
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Dawn
I looked into Mormonism at one time. However, I could find no proof on which to base faith in that religion. There are many unanswered questions in Christianity, but at least I can find proof of prophecies written prior to their happening (ie: Juste one example - the oldest copy of the Book of Daniel is dated to 200 years BEFORE Christ, yet counts to the very day that he would appear in Jerusalem as the King of Jews) - NOONE could produce any evidence of this kind to support what was written in the Book of Mormon. There is no older scrolls, no golden tablets, no tangible proof.
What I did find, however, is how similar these two religions are.
Mormonism = WTBS
1) Both organizations place themselves between man and God
2) Both organziations require their followers to accept ALL teachings unquestionably
3) Both organizations place numerous unbiblically based (therefore man made) rules and traditions on their followers
4) Both organizations claim to be the ONLY mouthpiece of God here on earth
5) Both organizations claim that the Bible contains errors, and in addition can not be interpreted without their organizational material
6) Both organizations hold their own written material as equal (and sometimes above) the Bible
7) Both organizations deny the diety of Jesus
8) Both organziations treat women as a lower than man
9) Both organizations keep their followers in control with the same guilt, controlling of information, and threat of expulsion
I am generally a pretty easy going person - but on occasion someone really strikes a nerve with me and this time it's you QUANTUM..........
I didn't like the pile of vomit I was living in before - what makes you think I'd want it back just because it's got new wrapping? It's still vomit.......it stinks and it's rotten.
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Amazing
Hi AlanF:
Truth is, Joseph Smith was a charlatan who just happened to catch on with enough people who didn't have the sense to see him for what he was. How that could happen to a bright man like Brigham Young is one of life's mysteries.
Brigham could have been very bright, but he was ruled by his penis and his love for many wives. Similarly many of Hitler's right hand men were bright. The book called "Journal of Discourses" contains most all of Young's and Smith's speeches ... and and expose them to be much like Russell and Rutherford ... Smith even stated he was greater than Jesus Christ, and anyone getting into heaven would have to pass throuigh him first.
The JWs and Mormons are pretty much parallel universe religions ... except you are corrct that the modern Mormons can keep their religion separated from their real life ... and of course Mormons do value education beyond the 8th grade.
Quantum: The Book of Mormon is easy to rip apart, and while some aspects have not be disproven, the issue is that NONE of the book of Mormon can be Proven, because it is a fiction. The onus is on Mormons to PROVE it, and not on the rest of us to disprove it ... Example: There is NO evidence of any art, literature, tools, clothing, words and language, religion or customs of ANY American Indians that reflects a single bit of hebrew influence ... and this would have had to happen if hebrews traveled to this continient ... AND ...
The claims of the Book of Mormon that all the Hebrews were killed off and this somehow magically erased ALL evidence of their ever having existed on this continient shows what an absurd and fraudulant book that Smith perpetrated upon the world ... or likely stole or had help in creating.
Anytime you want to go head to head on this ... I have my BOM, D&C, JOD, etc., etc. ready ... and let the games begin.
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QUANTUM
expatbrit:
Richard Packham has several issues he has briught up which are as old and dusty as the hills around death valley. Plural marriage and Youngs, Adam God theory.......his arguments have been answered...he forgot to listen......
if you or anyone else wants a specific answer...ask a specfic question!!
he, however, does not only say the LDS church is false but all churches are false... he is a self proclaimed athiest> I don't think anyone views his conclusions with any seriousness based on his non beliefs.
Quantum the wonderful!!!!
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Brymichmom
For a good souce of information on the Mormon church please refer to this site, operated by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, of Utah Lighhouse Ministries:
http://www.utlm.org/faqs/faqgeneral.htm#1
Cynthia
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QUANTUM
amazing:
start with a question
Who said anything about the american Indian....you are already shown to be completely ignorant of what you think you know!!!
Quantum the TEACHER!!!
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Brymichmom
Oh and here is a site regarding all the child sexual abuse and young women forced into polygamy in the Mormon church:
It's not much different than the Watchtower organization.
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Francois
Quantum
You "don't care to hear about it?" Who the fuck cares what you care about?
I would like to hear more about Jos. Smith being led to the location of the golden plates by a white salamander.
I would like to see the plates, too. And why would God use gold? You think God's got a thing for Gold? Seems like he would have used stainless steel. It would have been far more practical, don't you think? Why gold? Surely God don't have no truck with no gold.
Simon, this is a first for me, since I'm a true believer in the US Constitution's First Amendment and a professional writer, but I think it's time to break precedent and ban someone from this site. This site is a "discussion forum for anything JW related" as it says in the masthead. This isn't JW related. It's just a member of another cult spewing more cult crap.
My $0.02
Francois
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Celia
how did Smith know the names of peoples and places which were not known by anyone in the modern age until their discoveries in the 20th century.
He sure had a prolific imagination..... give me some names, don't have my book of Mormon right in front of me... Isn't there an angel named Moroni ?
HaHaha ha ha hahaha ha ha...