LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN (page 3)

Number 6

I just love the way this guy states, and indeed any bare assertion from the Watchtower Society assumes that it is simply correct because they say so. As if the onus is on us to disprove something simply because they baldly assert something is true. Listen mate: just because you barefacedly say something is so don't make it so.

The entire Mormon and JW superstructure is built on upside down pyramidal superstructure with the flimsiest of foundations. i.e In the case of the Mormons the whole Joseph Smith was a prophet/Book of Mormon/Golden Tablet thing and with the JW that they are 'the Faithful and Discreet Slave' from Matt 24:45. Once one accepts these foundations they then become suceptable to accepting anything the organisation says without question.

6

expatbrit

Richard Packham has several issues he has briught up which are as old and dusty as the hills around death valley. Plural marriage and Youngs, Adam God theory.......his arguments have been answered...he forgot to listen......
if you or anyone else wants a specific answer...ask a specfic question!!
he, however, does not only say the LDS church is false but all churches are false... he is a self proclaimed athiest> I don't think anyone views his conclusions with any seriousness based on his non beliefs.

Exactly the same irrational crap that most posters to this board have to put up with from Jehovah's Witnesses.

Expatbrit

QUANTUM

f.

you're here!

I think you'll find that you were the one who started to make your other beliefs known and challenged everyone to dispute them!

I THINK YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE..... F

YOU'RE A WRITER??????????? UH!!!

hillary_step

Like I said, these things are for the pure in heart, not for the pharisees!

I presume that you would not fall into the Pharisaic trap of declaring that you are pure in heart, while those who disagree with you are not - would you?

Not an ideal way to approach XJW's with any sort of viewpoint.

HS

expatbrit

Interestingly, one aspect that the Mormon church and the Watchtower share in common is their early attitude towards blacks:

We will first inquire into the results of the approbation or DISPLEASURE OF GOD UPON A PEOPLE, starting with the belief that A BLACK SKIN IS A MARK OF THE CURSE OF HEAVEN PLACED UPON SOME PORTIONS OF MANKIND. Some, however, will argue that a black skin is not a curse, nor a white skin a blessing. In fact, some have been so foolish as to believe and say that a black skin is a blessing, and that the negro is the finest type of a perfect man that exists on the earth; but to us such teachings are foolishness. We understand that when God made man in his own image and pronounced him very good, that he made him white. We have no record of any of God's favored servants being of a black race....every angel who ever brought a message of God's mercy to man was beautiful to look upon, clad in the purest white and with a countenance BRIGHT as the noonday sun.
(Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)

NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED... (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)

Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)

There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.
(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)

Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)

...wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS to come upon them.
(Book of Mormon, page 61, 2 Nephi 5, verse 21)

And the skins of the Lamanites were DARK, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which WAS A CURSE upon them because of their transgression... (Book of Mormon, page 201, Alma 3, verse 6)

From this it is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain was a SKIN OF BLACKNESS, and there can be no doubt that this was the mark that Cain himself received; in fact, it HAS BEEN NOTICED IN OUR DAY THAT MEN WHO HAVE LOST THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD, AND FROM WHOM HIS BLESSINGS HAVE BEEN WITHDRAWN, HAVE TURNED DARK TO SUCH AN EXTENT AS TO EXCITE THE COMMENTS OF ALL WHO HAVE KNOWN THEM.
(Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 26, page 635)

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)

... I WOULD NOT TALK TO HIM: I FELT MYSELF SUPERIOR TO SUCH A MEAN CONTEMPTIBLE CUR. I knew he was not after truth, but falsehood. This Greeley is one of their popular characters in the East, and one that supports the stealing of NIGGERS and the underground railroad....he is one of the prominent newspaper editors in the Eastern country, and he is a POOR, MISERABLE CURSE. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, page 119)
As the attitudes of society in general changed and advanced, so the Mormons were forced to update their racist theology. Just the same as some other religious cult that escapes my mind at the moment...
Expatbrit

JoRiz

Here is some evidence about Joseph Smith that Mormons try to hide.

"With the mounting evidence of Joseph Smith's involvement in magic, members of the Mormon Church are faced with a very weighty decision--i.e., can they accept as a prophet a man who was involved in occult practices at the very time he was supposed to have been receiving revelations from God? From the standpoint of the Bible, the question can only be answered no. As one former follower of Joseph Smith expressed it, a person must 'come out from the company of Joseph the sorcerer.'" (Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism, Magic and Masonry, 2nd ed., Utah Lighthouse Ministry, Salt Lake City, 1988, p. 55)

The Bible expressly condemns magic and sorcery (Exodus 22:18, Lev. 19:26-31, 20:6, Deut. 18:9-12, 1 Sam. 15:23, 28:7-11, 2 Kings 9:22, 17:17, 21:6, 23:24, Isaiah 8:19, 29:4, 47:8-12, Jer. 27:9, Mic. 5:12, Zech. 10:2, Mal. 3:5, Acts 8:11, 13:6, 16:16-18, Gal. 5:20, Rev. 18:23, 21:8). Christians, last time I checked, are suppossed to trust in God, not in sorcery, magic, amulets, talismanic influences, wizardry, astrology and divination. Since that is true Mormonism fails. So does the JW's.They look to their organization as a "god" so to make them idolators pure and simple.

JoRiz

Satanus

Let us say that the church was holding the gold plates and finally let them be examined

Again, purely hypothetical speech. Bible papyri are spread throughout different museums, open to the public for viewing. Not so with these supposed plates. I'm still waiting for proof. You make the bold statement of all the scholars who are mormon. Big deal. Where is the proof of this american hebrew civilisation? Many cities and civilisations named in the bible have left behind remains for any archeaologist to find. Not so, w this ephemeral mormon imagining. Funny how the only scholars who believe it happen to be mormon.

SS

ashitaka

Oh, the Church of latter Day Freaks. Moronmons.

Thank God for CONTROL religions.

QUANTUM

I believe you will find that the LDS church does not conceal or hide anything about itself.....you make acusations as though the church is as fraudulent as the one you escaped....I maintain it has held up to every attack that has ever been made against it... name calling is kids stuff and doesn't mean a thing.

Let's not forget.....the church you left which you say is false...which many of you promoted and did missionary work for....and converted many that are still in their.....should show a little more humility.....You your selves have proven your church to be false I have only agreed with you.....if I have pointed out other flaws in several of you...well I was always willing to take your retort.....but what you are showing now is revenge. Did your inprisonment in the WTS teach you nothing?

QUANTUM THE KIND!!!

Amazing

Quantum:

Who said anything about the american Indian ... you are already shown to be completely ignorant of what you think you know!!!

Average Mormon missionaries who visit people, and God knows how many I have had visit me in the last 7 years ... and as we get into this issue, it is THEY who mention the American Indians and bring the so-called scholarly stuff spewed out of BYU by half-baked idiots who are doing little more than trying to prove the unprovable ... so if American Indians are not in the Mormon picture, then your own Missionaries are liars. Except these two beautiful Polynesian ladies who called on me ... they were a delight to listen to.

As for questions, it is you who asserted claims and called such claims "Evidence" as is the title of your post ... you gave no real evidence or analytical treatment of anything ... the ONUS is on you to prove the claims you made ...

In the meantime, I sit here content in Illinois where Joseph Smith served time in jail waiting trial for his crimes ... and he was killed trying to escape from jail ... shooting away in a gun battle, and the LDS church has the nerve to call JS a martyr like Chirst ... he was a con artist who did not want to face serious crimnal charges ... at least Jesus Christ had the intestinal fortitude to face trial ... even if unfair ... whereas Smith was on trial for some really serious stuff ...

And then, we can at a later date get into the December 1912 edition of the NY Times full page article that "proved" the Mormon Book of Abraham is a fruad, and not based on Smith's ability to read Hyrogliphics. Come on, get serious and do some homework and don't bore us with crap.

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

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