Its Time to get IRAQ

by Amazing 87 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  William Penwell

  ThiChi

  I cannot recall the details and I didn't say it was the US but Israel. Whether this story was true or not or exaggerated, the fact is that in the minds of pro Arabs, their retaliation is justified. When will we as a human race quit the escalation of violence? Unfortunately probably never and we end up killing each other off.

  Will
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  ThiChi

  Simon, I respectfully part company with your viewpoint on "who was there first. Hope this information helps:

  The Real history is, that until the defeat of the Ottoman Turkish Empire in World War I, there was no such geopolitical entity called Palestine, no Arab state ever lived on this soil, and no National claim was ever made to that Country by any group, other than the Jews!

  Between the expulsion of the Jews, from their Land by the Roman Empire in 70 Ad, to the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1917, by the British Army, only Empires controlled the land. There was never in history a state called Palestine.

  The Palestinians are not a biblical people. They came from the
  surrounding Arab countries in the late 1800s! . Only the Israel had a state there. Until the 1960's, ALL ARABS referred to this area, as a province of Greater Syria.

  If you claim that the "Palestinians" are a "People" and Israel is their land, then tell me this:

  Who was the first "king" or "president" or "dictator" of Arab Palestine?? (If you say Arafat, then you admit that their history is very short).

  	What was their national anthem?
  	What was their national flower?

  You cannot answer these, because THERE NEVER WAS SUCH A THING AS A PALESTINIAN ARAB NATION.

  It is a hoax that has been promulgated since 1964 as a propaganda device. The name "Palestine" was the name the conquering Romans gave the ancient Land of Israel, so as to obliterate the JEWISH presence in Israel!

  The Palestinians have nothing to do with the name Palestine. The real Palestinians were the ancient Philistines. The Philistines were not Arabs or Muslims and were not descendants of Ishmael. The Philistines were Israelis ancient enemy in biblical times. They came to Israel from where Greece is today in biblical times.

  After the Romans defeated Israel in 70 Ad, the Romans changed the name from Israel to Philistine. The Romans also renamed Judea and Samaria (West Bank today) to "Palestina." The Palestinians are really Egyptians and Syrians.

  	95 percent of the Palestinians in Israel today, came from Egypt and Syria in the late 1800s.
  	Before 1948, Palestinians referred to themselves as greater Syrian Arabs.
  	The Palestinians never held sovereignty over any land before 1948.
  	To make it very simple, Please tell me one Palestinian President before 1948.

  You cant, because there is no such thing as a Palestinian people. There really other Arabs from Egypt and Syria. Despite being conquered and controlled by the Romans,
  Crusaders, Turks and numerous others.

  Only TWO nations have ever existed there in the last 2,000 years. Who are they? Ancient "Israel" and Israel re-established in 1948! To the Arab people as a whole no such entity as "Palestine"ever existed in history. There was certainly never an ancient Palestinian Arab nation!

  Archeologists to this day, continue to dig up artifacts with Hebrew writing, not some fictitious "Palestinian" or even Arabic text! So when the Arabs speak of an historical "Palestinian people," this is a lie and they know it! The
  Land of Israel was virtually uninhabited when the Jews began their return ["Zionist Movement"] Jerusalem was never in history an Arab capital. There is not one single mention of Jerusalem in the Koran.

  Only the Jews have had Jerusalem as there capital. David and Solomon built up Jerusalem. From 1948 to 1967, when the Arabs occupied Israeli East Jerusalem, the Arabs kicked out all
  the Jews from East Jerusalem, burned 58 temples, built bathrooms next the to wailing Wall and prevented Jews from Praying at the Wailing Wall.

  Only when Israel liberated Jerusalem in 1967, was Jerusalem a free city.

  And most importantly, [the story] that Muhammad flew from Heaven from the temple mount. This is the biggest lie in history. It was Hajj Amin Al Husseini, the Arab Nazi leader of
  the 1920s, who made this lie up. Husseini made this lie up, so Arabs would riot against Jews. And we all know, the Arabs massacred the Jews in Hebron in 1929 and 1936.

  In the late 1800s, Mark Twain visited the Levant and called it a Deserted piece of land. The vast majority of Arabs came to Israel AFTER these Zionists pioneers began to rebuild the land and thereby creating the economic opportunities and medical availabilities, which attracted Arabs from both surrounding territories and far-away Arab lands!

  Every inch of land Jews lived in prior to 1948, was bought legally at high prices in a non existent country. Terrorism, slaughter, rape and carnage by the Arabs against the Jews began as soon as the Jews began to resettle the barren land and largely uninhabited lands, continued through the British Mandatory period after World War I. First the Arabs massacred all the Jews in Hebron in 1929! and 1936.

  Then In WW2, The Palestinian leader, Hajj Amin Al Husseini went to Berlin in 1941, to make a deal with Hitler. This was when the Nazis were winning the war.

  Hitler and Husseini agreed, when the Nazis defeat the British in the Middle East. The Arabs and Nazis will work together to murder all the Jews in the middle East. Husseini also organized two divisions of Bosnian Moslems - incorporated in the S.S. The most infamous murderers. These Bosnian Moslem SS soldiers not only burned Serbian villages, churches with the people to the ground, but also murdered most of the Bosnian Jews, 90% of them. It was the Arab aggression Against Israel in 1948, which started the war.

  The Arabs were so confident, they would kill all the Jews in 1948. Instead, Israel foiled the Arabs aggression. After the Arabs attacked Israel in 1948, the Arab League Secretary General, Azzam Pasha said, "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the massacres of the Crusades".

  The Palestinian leader, Haj Amin Al Husseini stated, "I declare a holy war, my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!"

  The armies of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded the tiny new country with the declared intent of destroying it. Its well known, it was the surrounding Arab countries, that Told the Arab population to leave there Holmes. The Arab Armies requested and ordered, that the Arab population leave there homes to clear the Area, so that the Arab armies
  could kill the Jews.

  And if you don't believe the Arab countries told the Palestinians to leave there homes, let me quote the Arabs in there own words. JORDAN DAILY NEWSPAPER "FALASTIN". 19th February 1949. The Arab states which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes, in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees.

  Tell me what happened to the Palestinians in Kuwait and Libya. Go look at Saudi Arabia who kicked out 500,000 Yemenites

  in 1991 All Israel did in 1948, is stop Arabs from killing all Jews. How about some more Arab statements, How about some more Arab statements. Azzam Pasha regarding the 1 million Jews in the Arab countries. Assam in May 1948 said "There are over one million Jews in the Arab Lands. Their lives will be forfeit as well when we conquer the Jews. The Real ethnic cleansing happened, when the Arabs kicked out 800,000 Jews from the Arab countries in 1948. Israel took in every single of those 800,000 Jewish Refugees, while the Arabs with 22 countries, refuse to take in any of the Refugees they created, when they attacked Israel in 48. The reason the Arab countries don't take in these Refugees, is because they want to use them, for some kind of SICK WESTERN MEDIA PROPAGANDA. Did you know, that Hajj Amin Al Husseini dispatched a terrorist squad led by Hassan Ali Salameh to Israel during the second World War, with the object of poisoning Lake Kinneret and other water sources to kill all Israeli Jews? They were discovered by the British and prevented from carrying out their murderous deed. This is well documented in the book The quest for the Red Prince.

  Right now as we Speak, Israel has 20 percent of the actual British Mandate borders of 1917. The Arabs have 80 percent. Jordan was part of the British Mandate. The British created Jordan and named the country after the Jordan River in 1922. The 67 war was caused by Egypt.

  The agreement ending the Suez War of 1956, stated that blocking the Gulf of Eilat would be an act of war. On May 23-24, Nasser announced the closure to Israeli shipping of the Strait of Tiran at the entrance to the Gulf of Aqaba, a measure that Israel immediately declared to be an act of war. Egypt blockaded Israel's Gulf of Aquba and Eilat, thereby starting the Six-Day War One week before the 1967 war, Egyptian radios had very profound announcements.

  They went like this"
  "Itba-h al Yahood " = "Slaughter the Jews"
  Since the media mentions Barauch Goldstein all the time, what the media never tells you, is 21 Jews were massacred in an Istanbul synagogue, including 7 rabbis by Arab terrorists in 1986.

  The Golan was never an integral part of Syrian Real Estate, but part of the original British Mandate borders or Balfour Declaration of 1917.

  In 1923, the British unlawfully tore the Golan Heights from their mandate, they handed it over to the French mandate and the French gave it to Syria in 1946. The Golan Heights was never part of Syria before 1946. So, if you are talking about Syrian "ownership" of the Golan - that "ownership" started only in1946.

  The Syrian connection to the Golan Heights started in 1946. The Jewish connection goes back 2500 years ago, when Jews lived there. The Golan was part of biblical Israel. Jews were living on the Golan 2500 years before any Syria Arab got there in 1946.

  During the late 1800s, Baron Rothchild bought about 18% of the Golan Height from the Ottoman Empire. When the Jews returned to the Golan Heights in the late 1800s, they found excavations of Jewish synagogues and historical facts. After The French gave Syria the Golan in 1946, Syria seized the land owned by the Rothchilds and kicked out all the Jews.

  Second: Assad was one of the worst dictators on this planet. Have you read this new book by Roger Hatem. Its called from Israel to Damascus. Hatem first supported Israel in its war
  against Lebanon and the PLO in 82, then he switched sides to the Syrians in 1983, 1984.

  In his book, he documents how Assad in 1990 during the elections in Lebanon. Assad and his secret police killed dozens of Christian Lebanese, opposed to Lebanon being a puppet state of Syria. Hatem also documents, how Assad murders anyone that opposes him, by Assads Secret Police.

  Let me quote Hatem in his book. Today Syria is ruling Lebanon through terrorism. The Syrians have killed most of the Lebanese ! leaders through assassination and car bombs, exiled some of the leaders and jailed the leaders who posed threat on them. They imposed their candidates into Lebanon's politics, so they can govern it forever and make it part of Greater Syria. I decided to expose my story so that everyone will know that freedom and democracy does not currently exist in Lebanon. We all know how Assad butchered 22,000 of his own people in Syria, in 1982.

  Alois Brunner, the Genocidal Nazi who deported 130,000 Jews to there deaths from Vichi France, was give Refuge for over 40 years in Syria and was in Assad's Government.

  The real occupation of Lebanon is by Syria. 70 percent of Lebanon is controlled by Syria. Assad doesn't even recognize Lebanons existence. Syria has no ambassador to Lebanon. The reason why Syria wants to make Lebanon a
  puppet state of Syria, is so Assad can use the Beka valley, to export one of the biggest drug trades on this planet. Do you know Assad is a billionaire threw his heroine trade. Assad and Iran also use the Bekka valley, for the largest counterfeiting scheme against America. Assad and Iran, are making millions of counterfeit hundred dollar bills and then sending them in the U.S. We all know how Syria for 19 years, would use the Golan to shell and bombard Israel, for there terrorist activities. They also used the Golan to shell Israelis Waters.

  Israel would have to be insane to give up the Golan, which has always belonged to them. We all know how Assad harbors the biggest terrorists in the world, who target only civilians.

  This is why I give credit to Turkey. Turkey showed how to deal with the the butcher Assad. The whole world should give thanks to Turkey. Turkey is the only country to stand up to Syrian Terrorism. For 10 years, Assad was using PKK terrorists to kill Turkish Civilians. Assad was doing this, to force Turkey to give up its water supply to Syria and to force Turkey, to give up the Turkish Province of Hatay to Syria. Assad promised! 18 times to help end the terrorism by the PKK against Turkey, but each and every time, he broke his word. Finally the Turkish Military got so sick of this. They told Assad, if he gives one more weapon to the PKK, Turkeywill invade and Destroy Syria.

  Assad was scared to death of fighting a war with Turkey. Because the only war he can fight, is to kill innocent civilians. Assad then tried to say, Israel was behind the Turkish Threats. This is laughable. Saddam tried this policy in the Gulf War. Assad was only doing this, to gain Arab support against Turkey. We all know Assad gave in to every Turkish demand. So I say Kudos to Turkey. They showed the only way to deal with Syrian Terrorism.

  Here's some Golan history: The Golan is part of the Land of Israel that was granted to the Tribes of Israel by the Almighty, as recorded in our holy Torah. The Golan was settled by Jews in the 1st and 2nd Temple periods, as our Sages tell us (and as confirmed by Josephus). According to Jewish Law, it is forbidden to uproot Jewish settlements in Eretz Yisrael [the land of Israel].

  Edited by - thichi on 6 September 2002 13:16:54
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  Simon

  All this "who are the pallestinians" is not the issue.

  The fact remains that there were people living there who were displaced by us to create a Jewish homeland

  Who do you suppose lived there between ancient Isreal and 1948 ?
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  expatbrit

  Iraq and the Israel/Palestinian dispute are two different issues. Granted, they both involve Arabs, but don't forget that the Arab world comprises 22 (I think) separate states and stretches from the Atlantic to the borders of India. It's like saying that Northern Ireland is the same issue as the Balkans because they both involve Europeans.

  Really, the status quo on both these issues needs to be addressed. American over-partisanship toward Israel largely prompted by Christian fundamentalist pressure groups needs to be moderated and a more pro-active approach taken to developing Palestinian areas. Give them something to lose, and they'll be much more unlikely to risk the methods of extremism. Israel needs to be restrained by making aid contingent upon humanitarian treatment of Palestinians.

  And Hussein must go.

  My .02

  Expatbrit
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  RandomTask

  Simon, why are these countries so impoverished when the US and other western nations send already Billion in aid to them? Could it be that they are under oppresive regimes and ruled by m egalomanical despots who pocket the aid money that is given to them and allow their own people to starve ?

  So if we gave aid to Iraq do you think it would solve Iraq's problems? Would it turn Saddam into a harmless kitten? I don't think so!

  Suicide bombers and terrorists are bred through an ideology that hates the western ideas of freedom of religion, freedom of expression and just overall living your life the way you want. The "enemy" here is the imposition of religious fundamentalist law upon human beings. Just now a woman was sentenced to be stoned to death under "Sharia" or muslim law simply because she had sex outside the marriage and became pregnant. What happened to the man, he was let off because of not enough evidence. Seems because the woman was pregnant that that was evidence enough to sentence her to public stoning. You see what they will do to this woman is bury her in the dirt up to her neck so she can't scurry away and then they have all the townspeople throw stones at her head until she dies. Kind of reminds you of something else that we all are familiar with in one way or another.

  Imagine if the governing body was the actual government of the country you lived in? That is the case in much of the Muslim world. We can argue on and on about whether Islam is a great religion or not, but the answer to that question is inconsequential when you consider the basic fact that religious fundamentalist governments are an evil in our world, in our time. This is what we figh for, this is why those people are suffering. The US and other western countries have made bad moves, but the ultimate blame for the condition of the impoverished people in the world can only lie with their own corrupt governments.

  Now we can either cry about mistakes that we have made in the past or we can single out the worst of these evil dictators, who's actions demonstrate that he represents a danger to the stability of the world and do something about it. That is the course of action that I support, and as I have also heard and someone else has mentioned thid either here or in another thread, most of the people of Europe do to. We have seen this kind of evil before, we can either learn from history or ignore it and make our job 10 times harder.
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  ThiChi

  Historically, there is a point to be made. Jews do have a claim, a very old and historic claim. The time between 70AD and the late 1800's, as history shows, the land was desolate and mostly uninhabited. The Jews, who set out to rebuild the area, brought prosperity to the land.

  Citizenship was offered and some took advantage and are now full citizens. If ever there was a case to restore a displaced people, then Israel has a good case too.

  I agree the situation is a human tragedy...........
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  ThiChi

  "Could it be that they are under oppresive regimes and ruled by m egalomanical despots.."

  BINGO!
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  Realist

  @ farkel:

  japan attacked the Us after the Us had done everything possible to make an attack against them unavoidable.

  germany enter the war since the US supported england and russia with everything possible.
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  RandomTask

  Realist, I think I should qualify your statement by saying that The US made war unavoidable because Japan was an expansionist empire, having taken over portions of China, the Korean penninsula and most of the South Pacific. The US stood in the way of them succeeding in this takeover, thats why they Had to attack the US, because in order for them to succeed, the US couldn't be allowed to treaten their supply of resources to their armies. So the US did take part in bringing on the attack by Japan, but only because they represented an obstacle to their plans, because the US was the major power in the pacific at the time, a position Japan wanted to be in.
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  JT

  this thread is very interesting for it shows the difficult situation that those like you and i have who are free- each night on TV we watch the TALKING HEADS go at it pro and con as to whether to go to war or not, but sad to say I think many of us fail to realize and i know being a former jw i truly failed to realize what it meant for someones dad or son to have given their life so i could sell worthless magazines dogging them for actually giving me the right and freedom to sell worthless trash called wt and awakes.

  While i firmly believe no one here on this site is in support of going to war- it needs to be kept in mind that NO SUCH CONVERSATION among regular folks like us and TALKING HEADS would ever take place in Iraq-

  while none of us know what my man in Iraq has, we do know that he doesn't value your life or mine-

  with that as the context i pose these questions to those who perfer to take wait and see approach.

  1. If on Sept 11, 2002 a small "Dirty bomb" is set off in 4 or 5 major cities in your country would you then feel that we should have moved sooner or would you feel that now is the time to move?

  2. how much evidence would you need to be aware of before you would feel that the F-15 should fly?

  My fear is this guy or his friends are going to let something loose on the West that could have been niped in the bud, but was not

  when he feels that he is ready to attack he will not concern himself about what his people think,

  While I didn;t vote for Bush and he comes off like Clint Eastwood at times, I believe that endless debates can prove to be a waste of time

  the issue that Powell raises is a good one- do we have an exit plan out of Iraq

  and of course the answer is NO, but it scares me to think that while we are trying to figure out how to get out of Iraq and leave some form of peacefull rule---they are figuring outn how they can get into the USA, and the west in general and cause as much hell to your life as mine