Just a thought... As witnesses, we were taught that our hearts were treacherous and not to heed them. Could it be possible that some of these premonitions et al. are actually naturally generated by us when we allow ourselves to listen to our hearts and think for ourselves? I've known to many cases, including myself, that seem to indicate that we as humans have great capacity for such abilities, if only we would allow ourselves to tap into them. Hey, TW, where are you? Can't wait for your post on this one.
I Think That I Chose My Parents.
by Englishman 124 Replies latest jw friends
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Julie
Interesting thoughts E-man. I have given a lot of thought to such things. I think we all have "vision" or at least the capability. I've had many, many glimpses of future events--most trivial and occuring soon after the "glimpse" but I marvel at it just the same. Some people have very high awareness and some do not. I know people that I swear are way too above the fray to not have been through before and then there are those that it is so obvious this is their first time through. :-)
Perhaps we do go through more than once and if this is so we probably do choose what we are born into. I think this would apply even to those with wretched childhoods as going through life more than once could only be for one purpose. To learn it all.
I have one distinct memory from childhood of telling my mom about when "I used to be grown up". I can still recall the image that came to my mind at that time of me as a grown-up and it is nothing like how I look now but it was a woman. I wonder about that from time to time.
If there is anything to this I think it is tied into our level of awareness.
Of course then again, it could all be nothing leaving us mere ticket holders in the gene-pool lottery.
Regards,
Julie -
Englishman
This is what bothers me:
JW`s believe that physical "proof" is everything. When I was a child , there was a booklet called "Basis for belief", that attempted to prove that the Bible was true by scientific means. It used every argument from the ink of squids to the thumb of the chimpanzee to prove a logical creation.
Unfortunately, JW`s make absolutely no allowances for emotion or instinct. That "which comes naturally" is to be distrusted and rejected.
Our consciences are to be distrusted. In the 60`s there was a public talk doing the rounds entitled "Is your conscience a guide to life" which sought to discredit peoples inner instincts.
If there is one thing that I would love to shout from the top of a KH, it is this:
TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS!!!"
Englishman.
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unanswered
this post gave me so many thoughts, i hardly know what to say. in this situation i usually try to keep it short.
shauna-i am so sorry for your loss. i don't know if there would ever be anything i could do to help, but i would if i could. i would say more, but i wouldn't want to accidentally trivialize your pain. my thoughts are with you as well as rileygurl's.
englishman-i understand what you are talking about-i've always felt something "extra" in my life that has helped me. we often try to condense the thought of our personal "energy" into a form that is to simple. i've been connected to my wife in a special way since we first met, and it has helped me to be there for her even when she lived a thousand miles away. i won't say more because it take far to long to describe exactly how i feel about the spiritual nature of us as humans.
wendy-i understand what you are saying about your feelings on the subject being very personal-thank you for sharing what you did:)
doubters-it doesn't really matter what you believe. if it is a reality for some of us and not for you, that's okay. if you are happy with what you understand to be true, that is all you need. please don't try to make light of our honest expressions, though.:)(somebody-not refering to you here, you were very respectful)
-nate
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larc
I don't think the Society wants us to use either our minds or our hearts. If we use our minds to ask reasonable question then we are "running ahead of the organization". If we use our hearts, then our hearts can be treachorous. As Englishman just pointed out, our instincts can be trusted. I think they represent our basic goodness. When we feel uneasy, it is usually because we are going against our instincts.
Just my thoughts.
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unanswered
shauna-this isn't the first time i've misread a post-sorry. i am sorry for your loss but i'm glad it's not the loss i thought i read. my eyes occasionally skip over words, this happened when i read your post. please excuse my mistake.-nate
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expatbrit
I think I'm with Somebody on this.
While I accept the possibility that reincarnation, or precognition, or similar phenomena may exist, I can't say I've ever experienced, or seen convincing instances of it.
Of course, a lot of discredit is thrown on the whole thing by famous people claiming to have been Cleopatra etc. But for me personally, I've never had any notions of a pre-Expatbrit existence. Sure I've had deja-vu, but often when I analyse it I can figure out a probable explanation.
Out of body experiences seem to be convincingly explained by medical science (oxygen shortage to the brain producing hallucinations etc.).
So really I can't see a rational (in the scientific or logical sense) reason for believing in this sort of thing.
Englishman: I'm not sure I agree about JW's believing that physical proof is everything. Most of the pap they peddle cannot be physically proved; often the physical evidence contradicts them, yet they believe anyway. Their desperate adherence to the WT in spite of evidence is a very emotional stance. Maybe I got the wrong understanding of your post. If so, please correct me.
Of course, dogmatism is folly. We're all going to find the answer sooner or later, anyway.
Expatbrit
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dark clouds
"Within the Pefect symmetry of a circle, is held the essential nature of the universe. Strive to learn from it . . . to reflect that order"
This statement was written down in the 12th century illustrating the Celtic culture's respect and awareness toward nature's cycles. Their beliefs revolved around a reflection of natural cycles clearly visible in nature. . .
1. the cycle of death and rebirth
2. the seasonal cycles of rotation
3. the circular movement of the sun, moon, planets & constellations
4. the ebb and flow of the ocean tides
5. the migration of birds and beastsThe triscale (trisklene) was a symbol of the motion of these cycles and their continous nature---always growing and returning again to the same point on a slightly higher level---rebirth.
Being the poets that they were the following prose came about which illustrated the essential nature of this belief:
I died as a mineral and became a plant,
I died as a plant and rose to animal,
I died as an animal and i was man,
Why should i fear? When was i ever less by dying?
Yet once more i shall die as man, to soar
In the Blessed Realm; but even from godhood
I must pass on. . .They felt that all consciousness was essentially the same--seperated only by their accumulated experience. In other words, humans had at one time been all of the less complex life-forms at some point in time, and the only difference between them was that their souls differed only in complexity and concentration, which was determined by their successive lifecycles. All souls were considered eternal and were in the process of expanding beyond the experiential bounds of their current state---constantly heading towards the beyond. When a soul became saturated with the experiences of its present life-form, following the cycle, it moved on to a higher concentration. Regression is impossible in this belief.
As far as the Hindu version of Transmigration. A soul can regress as a form of punishment for bad karma. And its final destination would be Nirvana.
Though i tend to side more with the celtic view for reasons i wont disclose now, either of these beliefs win me over from the concept of heaven and hell, because for one, these theories teach me to be responsible for my own actions, regardless of what they might be, two the thought of ascending to a higher realm based on knowledge and experience and at my own choice is a very pleasant way for me to deal with death, at least physical death, and three it gives my life a sense of purpose amongst all the chaos that is.
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dark clouds
PerfectPie:
You are a prime example of the ignorant attitude that drives me to learn more, to further my knowledge, and to solidify my STATEMENTS with facts. You are also, the example of the mental atrophy that drove me from the borg. . .
I am really glad that you are here. Cause this is the second time i come across one of your responses, and im sure its not your fault, but you are in dire need of brain drying, all the water used to brain wash you is making your head heavy and making you sound, well . . .
it is obvious what you sound like. and now that i know exactly where you stand, i really hope that your you can muster the strength and knowledge to back up the foolish remarks that are leaking from your mouth. . .three things for now before i come back with some interesting discussion material:
1. reincarnation requires much less faith than the beliefs handed at the borg-dom halls, sit in nature for a few hours and observe the NATURAL cycle of interaction. . .
2. the only thing that is concrete about the bible is the fact that it is written down on paper and it is bound at a printing press,
3. most if not all of eastern philosophy and religion support the idea of a transmigration of souls (another term for reincarnation), oh yeah, Plato, Hypocrates, Pythagoras, Socrates, these names sound familiar? they backed up the concept also, and while we are here, the term read as 'resurrection' has a possible connotation to the term 'reincarnation' due to typos and mis-translations it is highly possible that these words are interchangeable, but dont take my word for i do the homework. . .ill be back with some interesting shite for you mate. . .
Englishman: Thankyou for having the cojones and starting this thread. I agree with you, we are taught to need physical proof, and to have faith in the unseen and what is to come (seems like a contradiction yet again), yet when we experience such 'phenomena' seems like all faith is lost, and all is to be quickly dismissed,
I have a hunch that these occurences are the things Jesus refered to when he said for those to have ears to listen and those who had eyes to see. . .tapping into my senses
CHUCK
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larc
Chuck,
The way you attack others sounds like a fundy in another suit of cloths. To say that Eastern religions and philophies and the Greeks "support" the idea of past lives is saying that many myths are supported by a lot of people who specualated. It really doesn't prove a thing.