I Think That I Chose My Parents.

by Englishman 124 Replies latest jw friends

thinkers wife

Interesting pick, Englishman, I have always had an affinity to the forties. Furniture, clothes, even music. I always have felt a special connection to that era. Any advice on where to find the book?
TW
JanH

I don't remember who said it, but it is true: when people stop believing (in Christianity, he meant, but anything does the job), they don't start believing in nothing. They start believing anything.
I think many people long for there being some higher meaning in life: that there exist comsic energies, that there are space aliens looking out for us, that we have been living before, that dreams can tell us about the future, or whatever.
It's amazing how otherwise intelligent people can believe such stories. It's hard to explain but for the fact that humans have a desire to believe in sort-of a higher level of organization in the universe. No matter how weird or contrary to known facts the ideas are, they do catch on.
- Jan
--
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen"
-- Albert Einstein
mommy

Jan,
I don't remember who said it, but it is true: when people stop believing (in Christianity, he meant, but anything does the job), they don't start believing in nothing. They start believing anything.

So this next comment goes for you as well, I see.
It's amazing how otherwise intelligent people can believe such stories

What I find amazing is that you can't question, disapprove someone own feelings or experiences. You can't get in their head and prove to them that how they "feel" is fact or fiction. You either accept them and respect the human race enough to keep your mouth shut. Or you speak up, and trivialize their thoughts. Best leave it alone unless you can prove it.
wendy
JanH

Wendy,
What I find amazing is that you can't question, disapprove someone own feelings or experiences.
Do you mean what you say here, or the opposite?
You can't get in their head and prove to them that how they "feel" is fact or fiction.
As they say: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
You either accept them and respect the human race enough to keep your mouth shut. Or you speak up, and trivialize their thoughts. Best leave it alone unless you can prove it.
This is an amazing statement. What you are saying is, in essence, "don't confuse me with facts." Not only do you not care how this universe is built up and what laws governs it, you actually want to prohibit people from doing a systematic inquiry of these questions, and to communicate their results. You want, effectively, to shut down science.
I'll be interested in knowing where you think this web board, and the Internet generally, came from. Do you think it fell down from heaven? Aliens brought it from the Pleiades?
If your supernaturalism was correct, why do we need to mess with circuit boards, cables, microschips and electricity to communicate these thoughts, Wendy? Why not just engage our "hidden powers" and use telepathy?
You know the answer to this as well as I do: because telepathy like chadras and whatever the new agers decide to call it this month is just nonsense. There is no such thing. It doesn't work. It may be a funny cocktail party conversation topic, and most people can tell vague stories about "unexplainable" events, but when it comes down to it: it's just fantasies without foundation in facts.
The whole project called science, which has brought humans from the misery of all past civilizations to where we are now, has one cornerstone: doubt. It works by testing assumptions and beliefs, including all old superstitions about ghosts, spirits and magical forces, and it has found them wanting. It has thus rejected these beliefs. What remained was an actual understanding of the mechanics of the universe, which has again made it possible for us to exercise some control over our environment. So we no longer engage witch doctors to fight disease; we engage science. And that is why you and I are still alive.
That you want this immensely successful project abandoned, out of fear of offending the sensibilities of the millions of still-superstitious people who believes the nonsense, is beyond me. It is a genocidal proposition, that can only come from a mind anaesthetized by entertainment and a comfortable lifestyle in ignorant bliss about what holds our civilization together.
- Jan
--
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen"
-- Albert Einstein
Esmeralda

Jan,
I respect your opinion, because it is just that: your viewpoint. I also respect Wendy's, those
of all the others who participated in this thread, and even my own. Because we are all individuals
and no two people will agree completely on life experiences and their significance.
I noticed this comment that you made:
but when it comes down to it: it's just fantasies without foundation in facts.
Even if it is fiction in the end (which I don't personally believe, but anyway...) I prefer it to the cold
sterility of pure science. Emotion is what sets humans apart, and I am not ashamed to feel them. I don't need to have
to explain and justify every single thing that I feel to others. I don't need approval or validation for my emotions.
I just wonder...why you need to keep arguing for the sole purpose of proving that you're right and
everyone else is wrong? Isn't it enough that you know, in your own mind that your view is the right one for you?
I'm sure you'll have quite a bit to say in reply. I just wanted to give you something to think about today.
With respect,
Es
The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best
mommy

Jan,
When I said you can't question someones feelings or experiences....I meant just that. If I told you I had a nightmare. Can you disprove it? Even using science hooking me up for a sleep study they would notice the change in my heartbeat and body movement.But the scientific proof of my nightmare couldn't tell you what it was about. So if the your "scientific proof" fails you, you are down to trusting anothers thoughts. You cannot disprove scientifically my thoughts!
I am glad the internet is here, I have learned a wealth of information, and met some really good people. Did it fall from the sky? Of course not! I never did say anything about telepathy, but I am sure there are plenty of opinions, on the web about this as well. And I will use the technology of those far wiser in these ways to read about it.
I don't want you to abandon your belief in "proving" everything. If you can't prove it, don't knock it is all I am saying. You come strolling in here spout your ideas contrary to most who have posted. You look like a "hero" in your eyes but all I see is someone who is unwilling to open their eyes. If you yourself have extensive research on my brainwaves and mythoughts and myexperiences that I have had. Well, then bring it on and prove it. But until then go to a topic you are welcome at. Btw this is off topic, but in chat this morning Kent said you may be able to direct me to some sites on "The big bang theory" I would appreciate.
Englishman,
I checked out the link but it was a blank page. I will try again later, maybe an error in technology.
wendy
VeniceIT

Ok now your in for it here's some of my thoughts. I was born and raised a JW so I have had a lot of questions in this regard, especialy the last few months. My Dad was a health nut and I've always been interested in Kineseology or muscle testing. Some think it's demonised or creepy or hokey, but it works on frequencies and electricity and is actually highly scinetific, when you look into it. I know it works, for with out it I would not be alive to day, I've had some sever health problems that medical doctors couldn't help with.
What I'm saying is I think there's so much about the body that we don't know or understand. I think that to some extent we communicate with people on a subconsious level, perhaps thorough frequencies. Every thought, emoution, or word has a frequency that can be recorded on machines, like to test a computer, I've done it, at first it's weird, but once you understand it more, it makes sense, and I find it fascinating!
I mean like your story Englishman about your son, and the others here, sometimes you just KNOW that somethings happened. Or how about when you think of someone you haven't thought of in a while, and then they call or you see them. Have you communicated that to them. Coudl we learn to focus or channel these comuniques (it would really save on a phone bill). I don't know, but I'd be interested to find out.
Some people do have a higher sense of awareness, I'm one of those people. I can 'feel' electricity and bad frequencies. I remember we were at a Quick Build a few years ago and I was really on edge and getting realy sick. I said there's something wrong here, well there was a big power plant, and lines that were giving off way too much electricity., One brother was an electrition and had those meter things that reads it and it was dangerously high, but I could feel it. They even held a big floresent light bulb, not connected to anything, up in the air and it lit up. Yes that was an extreme case, but I've had similar experiences. I used to have a lot of allergies, one was to cinnonmon, I could 'feel' if there was any with in like a 7 foot permiter, I would just start feeling sick. So I'm very sensative to that kind of thing.
I also can tell what people are going to say, before they say it, and it freaks people out all the time. Especially if it's someone I don't know, but it's like I understand there thought patterns and can figure out why they say things, and understand motives. IT's really strange sometimes. Since I was a JW until last year, I'd always srupressed these things, but lately I've had an interest in exploring them!
Englishman, the first time I had ever really read about Chakras, was in Micheal Crichtons' non-fiction "Travels". I thought it was a great book, and he had a section on his experience at at retreat type place. There are seven chakras on a person. your body has what are called meridians, merideians are nerves that connect your organs and tissues that work together, like your bladder merridian, connects yoru bladder, kidneys, etc. Each of the major body funtions has one, like a phone line I guess. They all converge in seven diff spots down your body. Since there is a conscetration of this electricity then you get a hot spot I guess you could say, or a chakra. Personlly I have never 'seen' one or an aura, but that's not to say I can't or won't! Micheal Crichton learnd how, so I guess anyone can. Anyway it's not demonised it's actually quite scientific and interestng. When you chakra is blocked 'electricies stopped flowing' that's when you get sickenss and dieseas. Ok well I think I've ran this on to long, and it probably doesn't make any sense what's so ever oh well.
Venice (about the picking our childhood thing, I never would have picked to be a JW ;) )
Tina

Hi All,
I would like to recommend an online article to all.
It's from the Skeptical Inquirer,Jan.2000.by Erich Goode
titled,"Two Paranormals or Two and a Half? An Empirical Exploration".
regards,Tina
Tina

Hi Jan,
I'm in agreement with your assessments.....Tina
rem

>>Hi Jan,
>>I'm in agreement with your assessments.....Tina
Me too! I get a sick feeling while reading some of these posts because it just provides even more evidence of how gullible we can be. Humans seem to be extremely adept at fooling themselves (I know I did for over 20 years!). Anecdotal evidence is practically worthless. With all of these stories, there are various other explanations that are ignored, but by their sheer volume they feed off of one another until there is a critical mass where they believe that it must be true because so many other people have it too.
I guess it makes people feel good or special - just like belief in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy can give a child something to look forward to. Remember how that hope of a paradise earth made us feel good - we didn't want to give it up - but life wasn't so bad after we did, was it? I don't see why people feel the need to fool themselves into believing such things - as if the real world is too cold and sterile. The world is a wonderful place and the scientific method has made it even better. Imagine how great the world was in the dark ages when people were slaves to superstition. But some people would have us revert back to those times just because science doesn’t fit in with their intuition or superstitions.
Of all of these stories, no one has related how many times they have had similar feelings, but nothing happens. The mind forgets these misses all of the time because they are trivial – unimportant. But when something really does happen – then instead of it being a coincidence – it’s some higher power. And then, they come on a bulletin board and share these experiences with others who have had similar coincidences (who hasn’t? I’ve had them too) and they reaffirm each other’s beliefs. And once someone brings up doubt or scientific research on the subject that does not coincide with that belief, that person is castigated as if there is something wrong with him! You only allow information that affirms your beliefs, but don’t take into account evidence that shows flaws in the belief. Doesn’t this sound like another organization we just came out of?
Remember how hard it was to come out of the WT? We had to open our minds to FACTS – and that is a hard thing to do. Some of us have tried to tactfully provide facts (because we have looked at both sides of the issue) and have been shot down as if there is something wrong with us – like we can’t join this exclusive thread because we don’t believe the same as you do. The fact is that there has been a lot of scientific study on these phenomena. If you want to ignore it, then do so as you wish, but don’t accuse us of having closed minds when we have gone to the trouble of doing research on the subject and coming to informed conclusions – not just opinions coming from our own intuition (which is horribly defective when it comes to understanding the natural world).
I’m sorry to be so caustic, but I just had to get this off of my chest. I’m not usually such a meany, I promise! :)
rem

I Think That I Chose My Parents.

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