The Trinity

by meadow77 740 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Gumby.

    You are wasting your breath trying to reason with some of these Christian fundamentalists. As you can see when they get pinned down into a corner they always through the Satan card in. When you have someone that will only look at one book for their reasoning, you have a very narrow minded individual. I say if the bible is really the word of God it should be able to stand up to any scrutinizing. So what do these Christian Fundamentalists have to be afraid of?? I noticed any points or quotes I have made they do not respond, so obviously it must be hitting a nerve. So keep up the good and provocative posts.

    Will

    Edited by - william penwell on 30 November 2002 17:17:54

  • herk
    herk

    Hooberus,

    You wrote:

    Herk how do you feel about the angel point raised by meadow? The first 2 Chapters of Hebrews seems to me to substantaite clearly the statement: SEE HEBREWS FOR REFUTATION TO JESUS AS AN ANGEL

    I don't believe Jesus is an angel. By the way, Meadow77 hasn't answered my last post to her. I wonder if she ever will.

    Herk

  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    will, the Bible doesn't need my defending. It has stood for thousands of years, and it will endure forever. The Bible is infallible from the first verse in Genesis to the last verse in Revelation. I would not make this claim if it had not been proven to me.
    And your right, there is no reason in trying to reason with me on this issue.

  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    Herk, I am interested in your response to my post about John 1:1.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Will,

    it's almost like being shunned by the Witnesses. All of the sudden I enter this debate.....then soon become invisible. Guess I'll leave and let the two dreamers continue on.........see ya dreamers...na na nana na naaaaah na

  • herk
    herk

    Gumby,

    Thanks for your comments. But I have to tell you that you have me confused. In some posts you questioned whether we can trust the Bible, and in the latest one addressed to me you wrote that Jesus taught "nothing but good." My view is that this is the better point of view, but I'm left with the opinion that you're not sure about it. Of course, neither of us can convince the other. That is something we have to research for ourselves. But I don't think the right answers are going to come from those persons, either in this forum or elsewhere, who speak abusively of the Bible.

    One thing that should easily convince us they're on the wrong track is the disrespectful and vile language they sometimes use and the way they usually go off on a tangent about how we need to shut up. I think they should have freedom to say what they want, but they don't want Bible-believers to have the same freedom. That says a lot about whether they're on the right road or not, in my view.

    You asked:

    I am only asking if you have HONESTLY considered both sides in depth?

    How much consideration does a person have to give it? I'm nearly 70, and all my life I've faced attacks by the Bible's enemies. I've heard all their arguments, and I've avidly read both sides of the story. Most of what the ridiculers believe is mere hearsay and the teachings of other men who write books against the Bible. Nearly all the great historians have verified for the most part what has come down to us for centuries about the Bible. But in our day, more than ever, there are people out there who want to re-write history. Whether we want to accept it or not, the same anti-God and anti-Bible mentality that prevailed in the Soviet Union for 70 years has found a home in our own countries. They may win for awhile. It's happened several times before. But it's impossible to thoroughly suppress the Bible. It always makes its way back to the surface for the enjoyment and enrichment of people searching for universal truths.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Herk

  • gumby
    gumby

    Swedish cheif

    Christianity is indeed unlike any other religions out there.

    I thought this is what you thought. Would you like some refrences to every single thing I've said?

    What I said wasn't made up by me through satan! It's history written down long before Christ and these writings are in existance. The Jesus story is an identical story other diety's had. Identical.

    These stories were prevalent at the same time the bible was penned (NT)

    Go to a library, go to barnes and nobel whatever and do some re-search on this and you will see it's true. Christianity did a good job in silencing their roots.....but they didn't silence it enough.....trust me.

  • herk
    herk

    SwedishChef,

    If you won't respond to my posts, why should I respond to yours?

    Herk

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    What Thomas said was a different story. We can discuss that another time. I just wish you would stick with what we've been dealing with so far, instead of frequently changing the subject.

    Herk,

    John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.. . . 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    The thing that Thomas now finally believed and uttered for which he was given such recognition was that Jesus was the one that raised His own body from the grave. (A failure of such recognition would have made him antichrist) Thomas also recognized the divine status of the resurrected Jesus, calling Him his God. Not the God of everyone else as they must come to their own conclusions, but his God because Thomas finally arrived at this fact, seeing with his own eyes the fulfillment of our Lords own prophecy. And to clarify the use of the word God by Thomas verse 31 shows it was not intended to link the Father to the Son as one deity but to identify the Messiah as God to Thomas in His own right but still only the Son of the true God.

    This is not as significant as Trinitarians make it out to be because calling humans God was nothing new. The scriptures did this of Moses, prophets and Kings and our Lord used such texts to defend Himself against accusers. But it was the failure of the Apostles at the time and disciples yet to come into the faith to accept this reality visible before Thomas. This is also why John later wrote:

    1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    Thomas and the Apostles corrected themselves and accepted such truth but many would not. The Watchtower still will not accept it and is antichrist as a result. They will not recognize that further use of the human body offered in sacrifice does not in any way nullify the sacrifice offered or change such history and was actually authorize well in advance by a commandment no less like this:

    John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

    For such reasons the prophetic words spoken by the ones dressed in white robes are assured when they said:

    11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

    Joseph

  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    Joseph, In what instances are Moses and other prophets called "God"?

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