The Trinity

by meadow77 740 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • herk
    herk

    UnDisfellowshipped,

    Isn't the following more consistent than the rendition you gave?

    "In the beginning was the Jesus (the Word), and Jesus (the Word) was with the Father (God), and Jesus (the Word) was the Father (God)."

  • herk
    herk

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Herk,

    Only if you're a "Oneness Pentecostal".

  • herk
    herk

    UnDisfellowshipped,

    You wrote:

    Hmmm, well, you know what, my experience with Unitarians hasn't been real good either.
    So, you apparently agree with Meadow77 that it's much better to make false charges than to use the Bible to refute points of argument. Yep, just like your typical Trinitarian. They never fail to disappoint me. At least I can admire their consistency in that respect, if not in any other.
  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Also, what did the Pharisees find Jesus guilty of in their "Trial"?

    Matthew 26:63: But Jesus held His peace. The high priest answered Him, "I adjure You by the Living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
    Matthew 26:64: Jesus said to Him, "You have said it. Nevertheless, I tell you, henceforth you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and Coming on the clouds of the sky."
    Matthew 26:65: Then the high priest tore his clothing, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Behold, now you have heard His blasphemy.
    Matthew 26:66: What do you think?" They answered, "He is worthy of death!"

    So obviously, the Pharisees knew what the Title "The Son of God" meant.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Herk said:

    So, you apparently agree with Meadow77 that it's much better to make false charges than to use the Bible to refute points of argument. Yep, just like your typical Trinitarian. They never fail to disappoint me. At least I can admire their consistency in that respect, if not in any other.

    I'm not sure, but I think words have just been put in my mouth that I never spoke.

    That's a weird thing that's been happening to me lately in this Thread.

    Also, why didn't Herk respond to my question about the Cartoon Herk posted?

    Also, no one has commented on my question that I asked -- "Do Unitarians teach that people who believe in the Trinity will go to Hell (or be Destroyed)?"

    And no one has yet commented on my last post about John 8:58 (a few pages back).

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 4 December 2002 1:29:45

  • herk
    herk

    UnDisfellowshipped,

    You can't even try to be sensible, can you?

    Only if you're a "Oneness Pentecostal".

    What I tried to show you is your inconsistency. Be honest about that. Look again at what you did with John 1:1:

    John 1:1 is saying "The Word (Jesus) was with God (the Father) and the Word (Jesus) was God (the Son)."

    In the same verse, you cannot give the definition of God one time as "Father" and another time as "the Son."

    You already said that when Jesus and the Father are mentioned in the same verse that the Father in those instances is always called God. To be consistent, you have to say "and the Word was the Father."

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Once again, I think words have been put in my mouth:

    Herk said:

    You already said that when Jesus and the Father are mentioned in the same verse that the Father in those instances is always called God. To be consistent, you have to say "and the Word was the Father."

    I think, if you will look back at what I posted before, I said "most of the time", not always.

    I don't "have to say" anything except the truth.

    If that Verse is saying that the Word is the Father, then WHY does that Verse say "The Word was WITH God"?

    You see the Holy Spirit moved John to write that Verse the way it is written because God knew that later, people would try to say that the Father is the Word (Oneness Pentecostals).

    That is why John 1:1 makes a point of saying "The Word was WITH God." But then, it also states "The Word WAS God."

    That is showing Two Distinct Persons as God.

    Would it make any sense at all if it said "The Word was WITH the Father, and the Word WAS the Father"?

    If John 1:1 was saying that the Word was the Father, there would have been absolutely no reason to say "The Word was WITH God".

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 4 December 2002 2:28:7

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    And what is with all the Name-Calling here?

    Now, I'm Un-Sensible (to go along with the huge list of other Names I have been called in this Thread).

    And, I don't believe I have called anyone Names on this entire Thread. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 4 December 2002 1:34:54

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped
    Who is the Creator of the Universe and Everything and Everyone?

    What does the Bible say?

    Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.

    Genesis 1:26: God said, "Let Us make man in Our Image, after Our Likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the cattle, and over all the Earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the Earth."
    Genesis 1:27: God created man in His own Image. In God's Image He created him; male and female He created them.

    Exodus 20:11: for in six days Yahweh made Heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath Day, and made it holy.

    Nehemiah 9:6: You are Yahweh, even You alone; You have made Heaven, the Heaven of Heavens, with all their Host, the Earth and all things that are in it, the seas and all that is in them, and You preserve them all; and the Host of Heaven worships You.

    Job 38:4: "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth? Declare, if you have understanding.

    Psalm 33:6: By Yahweh's Word the Heavens were made; All their Host by the Breath of His mouth.

    Psalm 104:30: You send forth Your Spirit: they are created. You renew the face of the ground.

    Job 33:4: The Spirit of God has made me, And the Breath of the Almighty gives me life.

    Psalm 102:22: When the peoples are gathered together, The kingdoms, to serve Yahweh.
    Psalm 102:23: He weakened my strength along the course. He shortened my days.
    Psalm 102:24: I said, "My God, don't take me away in the midst of my days. Your years are throughout all generations.
    Psalm 102:25: Of old, You laid the foundation of the Earth. The Heavens are the work of Your hands.
    Psalm 102:26: They will perish, but You will endure. Yes, all of them will wear out like a garment. You will change them like a cloak, and they will be changed.
    Psalm 102:27: But You are the same. Your years will have no end.

    Hebrews 1:8: but of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
    Hebrews 1:9: You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows."
    Hebrews 1:10: And, "You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the Earth. The Heavens are the works of Your hands.
    Hebrews 1:11: They will perish, but You continue. They all will grow old like a garment does.
    Hebrews 1:12: As a mantle You will roll them up, And they will be changed; But You are the same. Your years will not fail."

    Psalm 146:5: Happy is he who has the God of Jacob for his help, Whose hope is in Yahweh, his God:
    Psalm 146:6: Who made Heaven and Earth, The sea, and all that is in them; Who keeps truth forever;

    Isaiah 44:24: Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb: I am Yahweh, who makes all things; who stretches forth the Heavens alone; who spreads abroad the Earth (who is with Me?);

    Isaiah 45:12: I have made the Earth, and created man on it: I, even My hands, have stretched out the Heavens; and all their Host have I commanded.

    Acts 4:24: When they heard it, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, "O Lord, You are God, who made the Heaven, the Earth, the sea, and all that is in them;

    Acts 17:24: The God who made the world and all things in it, He, being Lord of Heaven and Earth, doesn't dwell in temples made with hands,

    John 1:3: All things were made through Him. Without Him was not anything made that has been made.

    John 1:10: He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world didn't recognize Him.

    Hebrews 1:2: has at the end of these days spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed Heir of all things, through whom also He made the Universe.

    Hebrews 3:1: Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a Heavenly Calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus;
    Hebrews 3:2: who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as also was Moses in all his house.
    Hebrews 3:3: For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house.
    Hebrews 3:4: For every house is built by someone; but He who built all things is God.

    Ephesians 3:9: and to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ;

    Colossians 1:13: who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and transferred us into the Kingdom of the Son of His love;
    Colossians 1:14: in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins;
    Colossians 1:15: who is the Image of the Invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation.
    Colossians 1:16: For by Him were all things created, in the Heavens and on the Earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through Him, and for Him.
    Colossians 1:17: He is before all things, and in Him all things are held together.

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 4 December 2002 4:25:28

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