The Trinity

by meadow77 740 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

garboru

Greetings to you Islandwoman!
[Trinitarians and Non-Trinitarians are always trying to prove the other wrong but really don't both follow the same teachings of Jesus in the Gospels? and do not both groups believe and follow the teachings of Paul?]
Do Unitarians and trinitarians follow the same teachings of Jesus?
Lets see:
-Do trinitarians teach that the Father is the only true God?
-Do trinitarians teach that Jesus is in subordination to the Father?
-Do trinitarians teach that Jesus is One with God just like we are one with Jesus?
-Do trinitarians teach that if you do not believe that Jesus is a part of a trinity that you will be going to hell to be tormented forever and ever by the big, bad, booty daddy, Satan "The Devil" Devil!?
[In other words, does the belief or disbelief in the Trinity cause a major difference in how a Christian lives or follows the Christ?]
The trinity is the cause of all of mankinds problems.
Oh, wait. I think that falls within the lines of Satan.
Then the trinity is the second cause of all of mankinds problems.
Hold on. Thats greed.
The trinity is the third cause of all of mankinds problems!
Ermmm... No. That would be power.
The trinity is the fourth cause of all of mankinds problems!
Heck, the trinity is EEE-vil.
In all seriousness, you may follow the teachings of Jesus if you worship the trinity or worship God. I do not think that God will punish His creation just because we chose wrongly. The people who should worry are the ones who know that The Father is the only true God and turn thier backs on Him willingly.
If God is a trinity, then I will indeed be going to hell to be tormented day and night by the BBBDSTDD.
gar
UnDisfellowshipped

Just to let everyone know, I have never once stated that if you do not believe the Trinity you will go to Hell.
The Bible teaches that having true love for your brothers and your enemies, and for God and Jesus, is even more important than having faith or hope or knowledge.
Here's an interesting question:
Do Unitarians teach that if you DO believe that Jesus is a part of a Trinity that you will be going to Hell (or be destroyed)?
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 3 December 2002 22:30:2
garboru

Michah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem in Ephrathah,
"small as you are to be among Judah's clans,
"out of you shall come forth a governor for Israel,
"one whose roots are far back in the past, in days gone by."
The New English Bible
So Jesus has a geneology whose roots are far back in the past.
Matthew and Luke shows us this.
How does this show that Jesus is God?
gar
garboru

[Here's an interesting question:
Do Unitarians teach that if you DO believe that Jesus is a part of a Trinity that you will be going to Hell (or be destroyed)?
Great question!
I would have to say yes... do I win a prize?
JW's teach that those who choose wrong will be destroyed.
I, for one, hope that Jesus see the good in all people and while he reigns as king help all come to a appreciation that only Yahweh is God and that our sacred service (worship, relationship) is with Him alone.
But that is just me. I cannot speak for anybody else.
gar
UnDisfellowshipped

Here are different Translations of Micah 5:2:
King James Version:
Micah 5:2: But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
New King James Version:
Micah 5:2: "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting."
Modern King James Version:
Micah 5:2: And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, you being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you He shall come forth to Me, to become Ruler in Israel, He whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.
1901 American Standard Version:
Micah 5:2: But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.
New American Standard Bible:
Micah 5:2: "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."
World English Bible:
Micah 5:2: But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Being small among the clans of Judah, Out of you one will come forth to me that is to be ruler in Israel; Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.
The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible:
Micah 5:2: And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you He shall come forth to Me to become One ruling in Israel; and His goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.
1851 Brenton's English Septuagint:
Micah 5:2: And thou, Bethleem, house of Ephratha, art few in number to be reckoned among the thousands of Juda; yet out of thee shall one come forth to me, to be a ruler of Israel; and his goings forth were from the beginning, even from eternity.
Noah Webster's 1833 Version:
Micah 5:2: But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, [though] thou art little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth to me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.
J.N. Darby's 1890 Translation:
Micah 5:2: (And thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall he come forth unto me [who is] to be Ruler in Israel: whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity.)
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 3 December 2002 22:48:30
IslandWoman

Hi Garboru,
In all seriousness, you may follow the teachings of Jesus if you worship the trinity or worship God. I do not think that God will punish His creation just because we chose wrongly. The people who should worry are the ones who know that The Father is the only true God and turn thier backs on Him willingly.
Great reply! It makes a lot of sense.
Thank you,
IW
SwedishChef

Its funny how Garboru picked the only version which takes away the meaning of the verse. Most other ones, as UnDisfellowshipped pointed out, say the Messiah has an everlasting past.
garboru

Alright! A translation war!
Youngs Literal Translation
And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth -- to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity."
God's Word Bible
You, Bethlehem Ephrathah, are too small to be included among Judah's cities. Yet, from you Israel's future ruler will come for me. His origins go back to the distant past, to days long ago.
New Century Version
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are too small to be among the army groups from Judah, from you will come one who will rule Israel for me. He comes from very old times, from days long ago.
The Good News Translation
The Lord says, "Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose family line goes back to ancient times.
Revised Standard Version
But you, O Bethlehem Eph'rathah, who are little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days
New Living Translation
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village in Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel will come from you, one whose origins are from the distant past.
I have a few more, but am too lazy to type them out. Shall we just say:
This passage is telling us that Jesus' decendants are from a long time ago.
or are you going to insist that this teaches the reader that Jesus is Yahweh?
gar
PS
As you noticed SC, The New English Bible is not the only translation that teaches Jesus' decendants came from a long time ago.
Edited by - garboru on 3 December 2002 23:2:48
meadow77

Herk-I see now that no theologians or scholars can be accepted, unless they are used by you. No greek or hebrew can mean something unless you say it does.No translation is acceptable unless you use it. God could not possibly be saying something unless you think it's clear. You are a self righteous hypocrite who preaches about christian love and respect all the while providing perfect examples of how not to treat people. How can I say this in a nice way, Are you on drugs? Or perhaps this approach would work better-Liar liar pants on fire. I am not sure I have ever meant someone as pompous as you, who constantly tries to pretend it's not them, but everyone else. You said you were 70? That's a confusing fact considering you seem to have alot of growing up to to.
Edited by - meadow77 on 3 December 2002 23:9:55
Edited by - meadow77 on 3 December 2002 23:24:0
UnDisfellowshipped
I find it interesting to look at different Translations of John 1:1:
King James Version:
John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ALL of the following Translations read the same way:
New King James Version
Modern King James Version
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
1901 American Standard Version (ASV)
New Living Translation
World English Bible (WEB)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Noah Webster's 1833 Version
Robert Young's Literal Translation
J.N. Darby's 1890 Version
Hebrew Names 2000 Version
New International Version (NIV)
International Standard Version (ISV)
Contemporary English Version
1899 Douay-Rheims Bible
Good News Bible
GOD'S WORD Translation
The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible
1912 Weymouth New Testament
Analytical-Literal Translation
1965 Bible in Basic English
The Holman Christian Standard Bible
The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Third Millennium Bible
New Century Version
Wesley's New Testament
Amplified Bible
English Standard Version
21st Century King James Version
Worldwide English New Testament
Wycliffe New Testament
The Net Bible
New American Bible
I do know of a couple Translations which read differently:
Johannes Greber's Bible
The New World Translation
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 3 December 2002 23:39:32

The Trinity

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