Discussion With My Dad...Ended Badly. (page 3)

Crazy151drinker

Valis,

Sorry your Turkey Day did work out so well. Well, at least you stuck you your guns and didnt let him walk all over you.

Thank you all for your comments. I really wish things had turned out differently. My kids will be up for quite a few days and it isn't exactly how I had envisioned things. Such is life. One a positive note, my kids will be here tomorrow and all my friends who don't have family, a recurring and sad theme indeed, or don't associate w/relatives for whatever reason, will be here on Thursday to feast with me.. Thanks again and I hope you all have a good Turkey day.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

Edited by - Valis on 26 November 2002 13:7:42

wheelwithinwheel

Sorry to hear about your situation. Its the same with our family. Last time I talked to dad about refusing a family reunion, I asked if he was planning on waiting to be in his coffin to get everyone together (hes 80+). I felt sad to be so blunt but wtheh its the sad truth. But dad is sticking to his guns. I guess he wouldn't want to lose the race for eternel life so close to the finish line.

MegaDude

Valis,

I used to be straight forward with my JW family members when I would see them until I finally got it through my head that being frank on the topic of the Watchtower gets you one result: alienation. Now, that can be a good thing. I mean, really, do you want to even associate with JWs, even family, that treat you like you're a leper? Think about that.

However, if your JW family member brings up a topic like *I wish my kids weren't going to die at Armageddon* then simply play the part of the lost sheep. It will require you to subvert your first urge to drop every bit of lethal logical bit of information you have that exposes the JWs for what they are. But subvert it you must if you wish to help those hardcore JW family members still mentally trapped in the borg.

You never ever never never never never never make a direct statement in a discussion with a JW. You simply respond that you couldn't make sense of a particular JW belief and that no JW was able to adequately explain it or help you understand it.

This is crucial. It makes you appear less threatening to the JW. The JW relaxes somewhat and may make an attempt to answer you on whatever topic is at hand. You aren't *directly* trying to get him to change his views. You will be doing this covertly by questions. Then use your information in the form of questions. With the elders who came to visit me, I brought up hemopure and asked "Isn't that made partly with animal blood?" You should have seen them wince. The discussion continued after that because I didn't do it directly like saying: "Hey, you guys are hypocrites! You allow Hemopure and it's made with animal blood!!!!!!" That kind of strategy turns a conversation into a debate and you aren't able to feed the JW crucial info.

Just my opinion but I've been able to get lots of info to JWs in this way. I don't look for instantaneous conversions out of the Watchtower.

I managed to get 45 minutes on the blood issue with two elders who refused to discuss that topic initially simply because I played the part of a lost sheep.

Valis

greetings mega. yes I know I didn't handle it very well. I get a bit irritable about it, particularly when the word loyalty is used in the same sentence w/Jehovah making it an issue where I'm somehow being disloyal to them as family members by not being a JW... Ah well...Still coming over this evening megs?

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

xenawarrior

Valis:

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this disappointment. And I think you handled it just fine. I doubt that, put on the spot, disappointment thrown in and several issues at once to combat, that anyone would have handled it any differently. It's not like you were able to take the time to prepare for it. You were being told that the family get together that you were looking forward to wasn't going to happen and -by the way- it's all your fault that it's not happening and here's about 6 reasons why. Talk about being thrown on the defense out of nowhere.

I'm glad to hear that you have the opportunity to spend some time with your girls for the holiday. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!!!

XW

safe4kids

Ahhh (((Valis)))

I'm so sorry to hear that your TG day isn't going to be the way you wanted it to be...you were so excited about it too

I agree with Xenawarrior...I doubt anyone would have handled it much differently. Don't beat yourself up about it and, besides, you just never know when something you say might actually stick in their heads. For instance, maybe not now or in the next year, but if your dad becomes an elder, and the child abuse thing isn't changed...then he'll see first hand what you were talking about.

Pettygrudger...you said
Its funny - I've never met an "Apostate" yet that didn't want just one simple thing - a normal loving family. And yet, we're the ones who are following "Satan", they by denying this are following "God and Jesus". I'll never figure it out

I just wanted to say Wow! How simple and clearly stated that was...and so true!

Dana

Edited by - safe4kids on 26 November 2002 14:12:46

beckyboop

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((VALIS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm sorry to hear that your parents probably won't make it for T day. I'm sure that had to hurt! And I don't think you said anything wrong. Those situations come about so quickly sometimes that we just react--and think later. You definitely gave your dad something to think about in contrast to the drivel from the borg! Anyway, based on your conversation with him you'll be able to figure out what things really struck a nerve. Hopefully you'll encounter more opportunities to open his mind little by little.

I hope you have a wonderful turkey day with your friends and family who do come--because that's what matters the most! It sounds like you'll be surrounded by people who want to be with you unconditionally.

I haven't forgotten about you maybe coming to visit sometime after the holidays--and we'll make sure that you have a good time!

Becky

LyinEyes

I am sorry Valis, your dad is doing this,,,,,,,,,he is the one losing out. That is what everyone here tells me , when I talk about my dad. But it still hurts,,,,, but the hurt is fading more and more. Some days I have good days , some are bad, where I cry alot , especially after watching a movie about a wonderful Dad, or where the Dad and kid find their way back to each other. I am not going to hold my breath that my dad will change either. I really am grateful for the family I have, here in this house, and here on this forum. I will have my first Thanksgiving turkey and just put up my first Xmas tree and I don't have any guilt anymore ,,,,,,,, I thought I might looking at that PAGAN tree in my house.......my no way!!! It is pretty, the kids love it and it is just a tree. Well maybe more than just a tree,,,,, a symbol of my freedom to finally do what I want to do and I am happy with my choice.

The more I think of how my life has changed in the last year, the more I see most JW's are simply so mind controlled by fear , truly makes me feel sorry for the R&F of them. My dad was an Elder , after all the things he has done I don't think he will ever be one again,,,,,he is a MS servant , and he will never , never change....I am sure of that. I havent heard from him in a year, and he hasnt shown any interest in his 3 grandkids,,,,,,,,,, oh the love the JW's have,,,,,,, barf, gag, barf!!!!. But like they say,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it will be their loss in the long run. I wish I could confim , he will get what he deserves someday.

Hang in there Val,,,,,, I know it is just mind blowing trying to figure out how they can throw us away so easily. Just know you have friends here, people in the same (hahaha) "sinking apostate boat", as they would say, and you are in pretty good company if ya ask me..... Dede

TheStar

((((Valis)))) Check your email.

Star

Discussion With My Dad...Ended Badly.

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