silentlambs board gets name change & new ...

by wednesday 76 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Simon,

    Put the Silentlambs web site link back on this board.

    I am going to tell you this once. You took down the Watchtower Observer for the wrong reasons and now you are taking down Silentlambs. New people coming in need to see the cross links at exJW sites. You want to help people????? Like I think that is why you are running this sites .... right??? Well great ... new people not only need to see your site but they need those cross links to find stuff.

    Please think of the victims, like you, before you start something else.

    As for this paying someone ....

    Personally I have not heard Bill paying somone to do this but I think it is reasonable. If it was me and I could afford it I would be paying someone to run the technical end of the site. In other words the person being paid must be available to maintain the web site. These things do take up a lot of time and it works out a lot better in the long run. Personally, I find after a while, volunteers have a way of moving on becuase they may not like this or they may not like that or they may want to do something different with their lives.

    As for the people at Bill's place telling me not to go to your site Simon ... well Simon ... I work with Bill on a number of ventures, (even though I'm own person) and I am still here.

    hawk

    p.s. - Trauma Hound - why don't you phone Bill up and talk about it????

    Edited by - hawkaw on 16 December 2002 8:21:2

  • Simon
    Simon

    I was surprised that he would chose to use some of the money I presume was donated to help silentlambs in paying someone local to him to do the website when there appear to be a lot of people able and willing to help who have volunteered and never even been given a reply.

    Sorry hawkaw - I understand your sentiment but I disagree ...

    The link and banner to silentlambs has been up on this site for a long time and I have promoted the silentlambs cause, hosted video's of programmes, driven traffic to the SL site and generally been supportive even though I have been personally insulted, saddled with the disruption caused by the attack on Ray Franz and seen other people driven from the site on more than one occasion. If he's now actively telling people not to visit this site then he is not fostering a spirit of cooperation is he?

    He has purposely avoided including links to this site while quoting posts from here in his newsletter (which doesn't give people the chance to verify the source themselves) and actively removed links from posts. I could understand this if the aim of silentlambs was to steer clear of doctrine and be 'neutral' and JW friendly but he has at the same time linked to 'apostate' sites and emailed out articles with no connection to silentlambs.

    As with the WT Observer, I draw the line at linking to someone and directing traffic to a site where the owner has only negative things to say about my site and tries to prevent other people using it.

    At the end of the day, this site is not a portal or directory - it is a discussion forum. I put the links up to help but no one has the 'right' to be linked and ultimately, I need to feel that I can personally recommend the sites that I link to. Right now, I don't feel I can recommend Silentlambs.Org as everyone just seems to be getting insulted and hurt. I hope this changes.

    In the meantime, I will sort out some links to places that I feel will be helpful to anyone who needs more information and support about abuse.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Master Hawkaw says,

    ***Put the Silentlambs web site link back on this board.***

    Yes sir, how big should the font be? Anything else your eminense wants?

    Your way out of line on this one Hawk. Your words carry a veiled threat, almost like the warning letters attorney's send to unsuspecting litigants.

    Get off your high horse.

    Danny

  • Focus
    Focus

    I agree with hawkaw.

    Please - and this applies to many others - try to see the bigger picture more of the time. Forget the personalities as far as possible, and the egos and hurt feelings.

    A few phone calls may well sort this out. Lengthening this thread will not.

    Trauma Hound, I've watched you for a while. You often speak to the issue, no matter who the personalities may be, and I think that is very often the way to go. Your emailing Bill is a good idea, if phoning is expensive.

    The very medium we dwell in (web, net, email) is naturally conducive to fighting. Humans are still very tribal. If you're so far away we can't hear your voice or see your face, we react to you as our ancestors would to someone of a neighboring tribe.

    Keep your eyes on the prize. Please. You can do it if you try..

    --
    Focus
    (Links! Class)

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Human emotion is a strange thing. An ego can be a healthy thing. Having one can allow you to confront issues and problems head on and soar to heights not possible without that level of confidence. But an ego that continues to grow unchecked becomes unhealthy. If it continues to grow it begins hurting instead of helping and we can begin to think of ourselves as the only one that can do it.

    Almost all of us here have been hurt by the fanatical level of control that was exerted over our lives while we were Witnesses. I'm not familiar with the Silent Lambs discussion board. I've only lurked there a couple of times. But it would be a sad thing if an unchecked ego and a micromanaging level of control would derail one of the noblest causes in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Simon,

    ***The link and banner to silentlambs has been up on this site for a long time and I have promoted the silentlambs cause, hosted video's of programmes, driven traffic to the SL site and generally been supportive***

    An understatement in my view.

    You should be getting kudo's for all you HAVE done, instead of all this heartache.

    Danny

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Well Simon,

    What ever you think is best - and sorry I sounded sooo angry.

    I was just hoping you see the importance of it all but I understand that it is your site (unlike what Dannybear says and who I would like to take this opportunity and say I am sorry for all the nasty things I have said to you lately as I should realize you are a victim too).

    SL should obviously not direct any traffic to your site or other exJW sites for obvious reasons as you well know. But I again understand your other feelings and your reasons.

    hawk

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Hawkaw,

    Thanks. Really Simon is the one Bill Bowen et al should be appologizing to.

    Without jwd promoting SL in the past, much of the work it has done, could not have moved ahead so readily.

    After 20+ years out of the WT I guess I do consider myself still a victim, especially since my entire family is still in.

    This whole affair with Bill Bowen/Franz etc, has done so much harm to all of us. Yet it has proved a point, that being, no one should be put up on a pedestal. A lesson we should of learned well as former victims of those who ride very high on 'pedestals' positioned by God himself........The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. If only God knew.

    Danny

  • RevMalk
    RevMalk

    Oh man......I assumed that this was public knowledge. I had no idea this was going to happen and now it's on my head for opening my mouth. I am very upset about the boards at silentlambs, this is true. Not because Bill doesn't feel the need to have them, but because he gave the Lambs what they wanted, then stripped it away without asking them, or even listening to their plea. His excuse being the 'negativity', and then suggested using the guestbook again. That guestbook was the source of more negativity than I've ever witnessed in my life, so that's why I am so upset. If anyone needs proof, go take a look at the guestbook archives on silentlambs.org (or silentlambs.com)

    ok, as for the link. I can't tell you what to do, obviously. And you are your own man, obviously. And you own this site, obviously. I understand that every man has his breaking point, although I never imagined yours would come in the same thread I was ever near. I feel partly responsible for this, and I am shocked that this happened here and now, after all that has happened. Frankly, I supposed you'd never remove the link because of the same reason I'm afraid to speak my mind, because there is no-one else standing up to fight for the same cause as Mr. Bowen is now. On a side note, I wonder sometimes if someone should, but not one person, perhaps several if anything. This one person, one man rule is, in itself a downfall, yet on some level is serving a purpose, for some. Maybe the problem here is that there IS only one rule in this cause. Anyway, if you MUST remove the link to silentlambs, is there anyone willing to put the information that is not copyrighted up somewhere that you can link to? Or perhaps build a section of this website to do so? Or even if you needed space, I have one opening up in the next week with silentlambs moving off my server (joke:). No, really, I will be willing to host information, and it can contain basically everything silentlambs has, and more even. I don't think Bill would have a problem with that, it's information that he wants out there to the public, so I can't imagine under the circumstances he'd mind at all. I'm just thinking that if you MUST remove the links, this will at least keep the information alive for your visitors. That way you have no ties to Bill, and you'll be still serving the purpose, and promoting the ideas and information that you've always believed in. I think, however, you should think long and hard on whether or not you really want to do this. Or maybe you have, I don't know. Maybe you've hit bottom and can't take anymore, and I am no-one to judge you, but on the same token I can see the harmful effects that 'can' arise from this. I must admit, even though I know you've taken alot, I can't help but feel the guilt in my soul knowing it came directly after my 'ranting'. Not knowing the full story and history here, this is not going to be easy for me to live with. I fear I've said to much, and yet believe me, I've held back greatly, even though I just want to scream from the rooftops my feelings on all of this. There's another thread started recently which I'm also going replying to right now. This will explain alot of why I am going to clam up here. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=42519&site=3

    I fear that even though I fight for freedom of speach, I've crossed the line. I've tried my best to look at the grand scope of things throughout my involvement with silentlambs, and avoided really voicing my negative comments regarding the organization, for the good of the cause. I've allowed silentlambs to come between me and my own family members for this reason. I've argued with the lot of you defending Bill and the cause, sometimes even against my better judgement, because I truly felt in my heart that that was what I needed to do. Call it WTBS mentallity if you wish, but I felt it my duty to back up the only man who seems to be pushing forward and putting the pressure on the Governing Body. I came to realize recently that that is not helping. You can't fight them, you can only hurt them. How do you do that? By making sure everyone on this planet knows what they're made of. Suing them until they have not one dime will help, but it won't solve all (not that we shouldn't, mind you). Why? Because with 6 million members worldwide, they will ALWAYS stand up again. I'm not saying those within the organization are a lost cause, I am saying just the opposite. It's time to quit trying to chop down the tree from the top......it will get you nowhere. Our only hope is to hit that trunk, the 'pillar' that holds the Governing Body so high. The trunk may seem strong, but it's only made of weak R/F.....pick one piece off at a time, and eventually the tree will fall, and if it never does? Well, if we save one child along the way, whether they be JW/ex-JW, or 'worldly', it's all been worth it. We should be concentrating on the children, and I see no children at Brooklyn bethel. We should be informing every parent, aunt, uncle, gramma, and grampa on this planet that THEIR loved one(s) may be in danger, whether they be JWs or not. They see us on the news and they think nothing of it, and go on with their lives. How many people saw the Dateline episode? 11 mil was it? How many remember it today? The JWs maybe? The same JWs that are now shaking their heads yes, and Amen when their Elders spat out their silly excuses?

    Ok, there I go again ranting, so I'll shut up lest I do more damage. Here is a 'portion' of the email I received from Bill regarding the 'paying' of a new Webmaster. Whether he's telling the truth or not I cannot be certain:

    I have been out most of today and just got in. XXXXXX is not taking
    over I may use him to assist with certain things such as the video
    stuff. I am currently talking to a local webmaster to pay him a fee and
    have him run the site. I believe this will be a simpler way to go and
    take the stress off you.

    There's much more, but apparently posting an email from someone on here doesn't win you any awards :)

    As for the part about staying away from JWD. I have messages from Bill, and no, he didn't 'demand' that I stay away from here. He is on here every day, and anyone that's close to Bill knows they get an email that they've 'been spending alot of time on JWD, it's best to stay away, they'll only tear you down' (loosely quoted). It's like you can't go anywhere without being followed, it's very creepy. Also, I've received reports of downright 'demanding' to stay away, but again, that is 3rd party info. I only have what I've been told by Bill to go on, and that's all. I only have personal messages via email and the Private Message system at SLD (now LRD), and to post those may be violating trust, so I will refrain. I've learned my lesson in that regard.

    I have to think about all this for a while, like I said Simon, this is your site and you need to do what you feel is right and just. I can't decide that for you, obviously, nor would I try. But I beg of you to think things through and make sure you feel in your heart and soul that this is what needs to be done.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    ummm ..... Rev

    I really don't know how to approach this subject with you .... I ahh.... just ... well ....

    I now see that Bill has NOT hired anyone but may in the future. Okay. On a side bar ... well I would recommend to Bill that he do hire someone as it takes the pressure off any volunteer(s) and puts a "duty" on the person hired to properly maintain it - but that is just me though as I know volunters have lots on their plate at times.

    I also see Bill is NOT telling people to stay away from this db. Okay ..... well that helps seeing he hasn't told me to stay away from it.

    Question ..... Did you ever say recently that you were planning on quiting the SL web site due to time constraints/family matters etc?

    hawk

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