Michael the Archangel (page 7)

ChristianObserver

Hello :o)

May I ask Joseph his thoughts on the mention of Michael the archangel in the book of Revelation?

With thanks in anticipation...

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

ChristianObserver ,

Some time ago I gave a speech on the dual nature of Christ. I call it the hypostasis nature of Christ but the term hypostasis is intended to be understood in its generic form not the Trinitarian use of this word. This was also discussed on this forum recently.

As brought out the term Logos is not a name but a title or function. Michael as the non-human name for the Logos identifies this Logos by name as YHWH identifies the Father by name. And due to the dual nature of this Logos our Lord can now be addressed either way and use whichever nature and/or name is appropriate for the occasion the way He did with Paul. Therefore the use of Michael to identify our Lord while performing the function described in Revelation is quite proper and this Michael is actually identified as the Christ in this text who will later use His human name of Jesus in this same kingdom when He comes.

Joseph

Edited by - JosephMalik on 28 January 2003 23:14:24

UnDisfellowshipped

JosephMalik said:

YHWH identifies the Father by name.

Where does the Bible say that YHWH is only the Father's Name?

Michael is actually identified as the Christ in this text.

I think I missed that part of the text.

Also, if Michael is a name of our Lord Jesus Christ, why is the name Michael only used twice in the New Testament?

JosephMalik

Undisfellowshipped,

YLT 15 And God saith again unto Moses, Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My nameto the age, and this My memorial, to generationgeneration.

And this is the only name of God in scripture, used thousands of times in the OT.

The fact that Michael is used in both the Old and New testamants confirms that fact that Michael not only was but still is the name of the Logos that became Christ. Thus the dual nature of Christ is confirmed.

Joseph

plmkrzy

ChristianObserver , Thanks for the explanation of the 'el suffix. hmmm...if it were used as a prefix instead, would that make the Israelites Mexicans? Only kidding I hope you know. That would also make them Catholics as well. Oh wait they were! Hehehe. .

Regarding the book of Rev., it seems as though the new version (after Christ) of the Bible was really written by Quentin Terrantino.

plum of the it's too early in the morning and haven't had my coffee yet class

Edited by - plmkrzy on 29 January 2003 11:7:50

UnDisfellowshipped

Joseph, thanks for your response.

You said:

YLT 15 And God saith again unto Moses, Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My nameto the age, and this My memorial, to generationgeneration.
And this is the only name of God in scripture, used thousands of times in the OT.

My question was, where does the Bible say that only the Father can be called YHWH [Jehovah]?

I have a very big question for you Joseph:

What do you believe that the defining attributes, qualities, and characteristics of the Supreme Being are, which no created being has?

Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 30 January 2003 6:42:1

JosephMalik

My question was, where does the Bible say that only the Father can be called YHWH [Jehovah]?

Undisfellowshipped,

I know what your question was and I answered it. There is no other name for the Father and no other name for the true God for that matter in scripture. There are many titles and descriptions but no other names for Him.

Joseph

plmkrzy

YHWH...exactly how is this pronounced? Without sounding like someone getting ready to spit?

UnDisfellowshipped

Joseph,

The Scripture you posted does indeed show that God is the Only One who can be called YHWH, but it does not show that only the Father can be called YHWH, to the exclusion of the Son.

In fact, as I posted before in this Thread, I believe that it was the Pre-Human Jesus Christ [the Word/Logos] speaking to Moses.

Exodus 3:2: The Angel [Messenger] of YHWH appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Exodus 3:3: Moses said, I will turn aside now, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
Exodus 3:4: When YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said, "Moses! Moses!" He said, "Here I am."
Exodus 3:5: He said, "Don't come close. Take off your sandals from off your feet, for the place you are standing on is holy ground."
Exodus 3:6: Moreover He said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look at God.

Exodus 3:11: Moses said to God, "Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?"

Exodus 3:13: Moses said to God, "Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and tell them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you;' and they ask me, 'What is His Name?' What should I tell them?"
Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM," and He said, "You shall tell the children of Israel this: "I AM has sent me to you."
Exodus 3:15: God said moreover to Moses, "You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My Name forever, and this is My Memorial to all generations.

Notice: It was the Messenger of YHWH who is in the bush, but this Messenger also claims to be YHWH and God and I AM WHO I AM!

This was no created angelic being speaking -- it was the Eternal Logos -- YHWH -- the Only-Begotten of the Father!

JosephMalik

Notice: It was the Messenger of YHWH who is in the bush, but this Messenger also claims to be YHWH and God and I AM WHO I AM!

Undisfellowshipped,

Sure because this Messenger is directly representing God the same as if God were actually there. Creation was also delegated in a similar way. And the I AM is not a name nor is it identified as a name in the text. Where is the I AM called my name? Nowhere. And how is it that in the Greek text translated by Jews themselves it is rendered I AM the Being not I AM period? This I AM is never used again. If it is a name why was it not also used thousands of times like YHWH? John 8:58 is not an example of further use as it does not say I AM the Being as the Greek does. The I AM was an introduction to the name YHWH given in the next verse and never used again. The Father is what the Supreme Being is called in scripture and the name YHWH belongs to Him. There is no such thing as a Son that is also true God or a Holy Spirit that is true God so YHWY does not apply to them. All this has been discussed on this forum in depth and you have provided no evidence that the Father is not YHWH since this Father is the only true God not Jesus or Logos.

But if you insist on splitting hairs like this then What is the real name of the Father?

What is the real name of the Son? Michael? Jesus?

What is the name of the Holy Spirit?

Joseph

Edited by - JosephMalik on 31 January 2003 7:13:48

Michael the Archangel

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