What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    Jeffro : There’s no evidence that the lady’s story is actually true. There is no verified record of the phone call, no transcript of the conversation, no established relationship between the two people, it’s just a story a lady told.

    Another interview was reported by Andrea Tornielli in Il Giornale of July 17, 2008. There he wrote (in translation) :

    "The Pope, in the only phone call he made to me, a few weeks after his election, said: 'for you I will always be Ratzinger-Pepi...' ".

    Steffie Brzakovic is a smiling eighty-one-year-old lady of German origins, who left Germany more than half a century ago and moved to Australia, where she lives. Steffie is a second cousin of Benedict XVI, her childhood playmate, and for over thirty years she has left the Catholic religion, that faith of which her illustrious cousin was first a rigorous guardian in the former Holy Office, and then became the world leader.

    Mrs. Brzakovic, since the beginning of the seventies, has in fact embraced the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, becoming an assiduous follower. She lives at number 5 Crisp Street, in Cooma, a town not far from Canberra, developed in the mid-nineteenth century thanks to the nearby gold deposits, which today has about eight thousand inhabitants. It is not easy to convince her to talk about her famous cousin, who in these days is so close to her home and not, as usual, on the other side of the globe. Steffie gave the only interview in August 2005, shortly after Ratzinger's election, to the local newspaper Canberra Times, but she almost seems to have regretted it.

    "Yes," she confirms, a little hesitant and surprised to have been contacted by Il Giornale, "I am the Pope's cousin... “. We ask her if a face-to-face meeting with Benedict XVI is planned in these days. "So far no, no one has called me, no one has invited me. I was supposed to come to Sydney, to meet him, but I can't move from Cooma, I'm not able to drive, I'm old."

    Mrs. Brzakovic explains her family ties with the pontiff: "My mother Katherine was a cousin of Joseph's mother, Maria Peintner. My family lived in Weilheim in Oberbayern, about fifty kilometers from the town where the Ratzingers lived. We used to hang out... “.

    May I ask you what Benedict XVI was like as a child? "He was always where he shouldn't be... If I think about it today, it is a miracle that we are still alive," she adds, alluding to the liveliness of little Joseph, who one day, in Aschau am Inn, the town where the Ratzingers had moved in 1932 after leaving Tittmoning, one day fell into the pond where large carp were swimming.

    An episode that the pontiff himself recalls in his autobiography, published in 1997: "Once, while I was playing, I was there to drown."

    Steffie left Germany back in 1956, when Fr. Joseph was still a young priest professor. And she moved to Australia. For fifty years their relationship was interrupted, he knew he had a cousin at the antipodes, she knew she had a cousin and former playmate who became a priest and then archbishop and cardinal. Then, in April 2005, when both were 78 years old, Ratzinger's life took an abrupt turn and the elderly Bavarian cardinal was elected successor to John Paul II. A few days passed, and the phone from Brzakovic's house in Cooma rang for an international call, which came from Vatican City. On the other end of the phone is him, Benedict XVI. "At first I thought it was a joke. He told me he was 'Ratzinger-Pepi', using the nickname they called him as a child."

    Finally Steffie realizes that it is not a joke and that she is talking on the phone with him. "I said to him: 'Are you the Pope?' And he replied: 'Yes, but for you I am still Ratzinger-Pepi'".

    It is not easy to get a few more details about that phone call. "What we talked about - is a private matter, it concerns me and him, it concerns two cousins who had not spoken for fifty years... “. And yet, with Benedict XVI, Mrs. Brzakovic also spoke of the faith embraced a few decades earlier, that of the Jehovah's Witnesses. A choice that caused many problems and frustrations to the woman, who had to face a lot of opposition from her family.

    The Pope, however, did not reproach her, as the woman had already revealed to the Canberra Times three years ago: "He told me: 'You are doing the work we should do'", referring to the missionary activity of Jehovah's Witnesses, who go from house to house to meet people. "He also told me: 'You have halls that are not so big, but they are full, we have cathedrals, churches and chapels, but they are often empty.'"

    The conversation ends, but in the gaze and voice of the Pope's cousin one can grasp an expectation. She has not yet lost hope that Pope Benedict will make a phone call from Sydney and perhaps arrange to pick her up to meet her.

  • slimboyfat
  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    This is part of the broader mission to lead all people to the fullness of truth found in Christ and in the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

    @aqwsed12345

    We agree on a great many things of orthodoxy. And for that, I am much grateful for your many posts. But, bible believers not affiliated with anyone other than Christ, and certainly not the Catholic church, has theological problems with statements like the above. Jesus is the TRUTH, not you, not me, not any church. That's what the boss says. Deal with it.

    We JW kids had this "truth" stuff crammed down our throats, all the while their false prophecies were failing. The few of us that were saved out of that hell hole bear witness to Christ in the very midst of heresy. It's all we ever knew. But, when God wants you and hunts you down, it doesn't matter. Truth is found in Christ alone since he alone is the TRUTH.

    So, while I am grateful for the Popes of the last 200 years, history cannot forget the 19 Popes in a row that facilitated the death of 50 million Europeans in a cooridinated systematic way during the Papal Inquisition. What a nightmare that was. 600 years of terror.

    Not all of your brothers share your affinity for the Papal Church, though we all support the catholic (universal) church.


  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    The Austrian report adds a detail about another relative in Australia (google translation from the original German):

    Pope's cousin is a Jehovah's Witness: Ratzinger's relative lives in Australia

    Brzakovic's mother was a cousin of Ratzinger's mother, Maria Peintner. The family lived in Weilheim in Upper Bavaria, 50 kilometers from the village where the Ratzinger family lived. "We often played together. Joseph was always where he shouldn't have been. When I think back today, it's a miracle we're still alive. Once, when we were playing together, Joseph fell into a pond and almost drowned," the woman said. The Pope also recounted this incident in his biography published in 1997.
    Steffie Brzakovic emigrated to Australia in 1956, when Joseph Ratzinger was still a young priest. There was no further contact between the two for 50 years. In April 2005, shortly after his election as pope, Brzakovic received a call from Benedict XVI. "At first, I thought it was a joke. But then he told me he was 'Ratzinger-Pepi.' We always called him by that nickname as children," the woman reported. Brzakovic reported that she would have liked to meet the Pope in Sydney. "Unfortunately, I can't leave my apartment; I'm too old," said the woman, who, however, is still hoping for a call from Joseph Ratzinger. A direct cousin of the Pope, 83-year-old Erika Kopp, also lives in Australia.
  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    I am aware of the renewed interest in the Canberra Times' (Brzakovic's local regional newspaper) story that arose when Ratzinger visited Australia in 2008, which elicited some interest from a few regional European newspapers. The story still all hinges on the claimed conversation reported only by the lady, without any independent verification, and with the relationship changing from ‘first cousin’ to ‘second cousin’, an even more tenuous connection. The story was never verified by the Vatican or by Ratzinger.

    (It is amusing, though, watching people 'finding' these other sources that I already found on my initial verification.)

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    Slimboyfat:

    Did the priest know your JW connection or did he just tell the story in general?

    Duh, what?

    I said, if you recall, that I am remembering this story from my boyhood days in elementary school, when I went to Catholic school during the day and Hebrew school in the evening.

    I don't know about you, but I don't believe that means I would have had any JW connection at the time.

    Do Jehovah's Witnesses normally send their kids to Catholic prep schools for boys and Hebrew school in the afternoon so they can become Bar Mitzvah? If I am not mistaken, JWs tend to believe other religions are of the Devil, right?

    (Me thinks me knows why you folks were in a cult now. Brain issues.)

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    Kidding on the brain issues.

    No. I was a boy. I had never had any conversation with a real JW before up to that point in my life.

    I think I was 7. Maybe...

    There was my aunt, but no, we hadn't talked about religion.

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    The Carholic Church may not have been as sharp in their criticism of Jehovah’s Witnesses but the Orthodox Church has denounced them for being a Free masonic and Zionist organization

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Note some other telling elements of the story.

    Another interview was reported by Andrea Tornielli in Il Giornale of July 17, 2008.

    Actually, very little of the article was ‘another interview’. Most of the quotes are copied from the Canberra Times article or practiced responses identical to that article. All of it repeats an unverified anecdote.

    Steffie is a second cousin of Benedict XVI

    The original article claimed she was a first cousin.

    It is not easy to convince her to talk about her famous cousin … she almost seems to have regretted it. "Yes," she confirms, a little hesitant and surprised to have been contacted by Il Giornale. … It is not easy to get a few more details about that phone call. "What we talked about - is a private matter, it concerns me and him, it concerns two cousins who had not spoken for fifty years... “.

    This smacks of someone who made up a story that has now spun out of control.

    We ask her if a face-to-face meeting with Benedict XVI is planned in these days. "So far no, no one has called me, no one has invited me. I was supposed to come to Sydney, to meet him, but I can't move from Cooma, I'm not able to drive, I'm old."

    So which is it? You weren’t invited or contacted, or you were supposed to go to Sydney to meet him but you can’t? It’s a contradictory panic response.

    May I ask you what Benedict XVI was like as a child? "He was always where he shouldn't be... If I think about it today, it is a miracle that we are still alive," she adds

    Her responses are lifted from the original story, or a rehearsed response, and remain as vague as the first time.

    alluding to the liveliness of little Joseph, who one day, in Aschau am Inn, the town where the Ratzingers had moved in 1932 after leaving Tittmoning, one day fell into the pond where large carp were swimming. An episode that the pontiff himself recalls in his autobiography, published in 1997: "Once, while I was playing, I was there to drown."

    These details are speculation added by Il Giornale rather than quoting Brzokovic, but could be known by anyone with access to his 1997 biography.

    "At first I thought it was a joke. He told me he was 'Ratzinger-Pepi', using the nickname they called him as a child." Finally Steffie realizes that it is not a joke and that she is talking on the phone with him. "I said to him: 'Are you the Pope?' And he replied: 'Yes, but for you I am still Ratzinger-Pepi'".

    More quotes lifted or rehearsed from the original story.

    as the woman had already revealed to the Canberra Times three years ago

    Direct confirmation from Il Giornale that the article is quoting material from the original Canberra Times piece.

    "He told me: 'You are doing the work we should do'", referring to the missionary activity of Jehovah's Witnesses, who go from house to house to meet people. "He also told me: 'You have halls that are not so big, but they are full, we have cathedrals, churches and chapels, but they are often empty.'"

    More comments lifted or rehearsed from the original article, and completely consistent with how a JW might embellish a story to give the appearance of interest.

    PS… I see someone really doesn’t like rational analysis of unverified anecdotes. 😂 I hope I can cope with the ‘dislike’.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Back to the original question, the Catholic Church’s official position organisationally is one of respectful dialog even with denominations such as JWs which they view as doctrinally heretical. (However, members of the Catholic Church are not encouraged to engage with JWs to avoid doctrinal confusion.) So the Catholic view of JWs is considerably better than the view JWs have of the Catholic Church.

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