Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan 167 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • scholar
    scholar

    aqwsed12345

    Rebuttal 1:

    The debate of 605 vs 609 BCE is hardly minor for any definite historic period surely must have a definitive beginning and end, but if you are into fuzzy business, then that is OK. The Bible writers who wrote about the 70 years make no mention of the battle of Harran or the battle of Carchemish as the beginning of the 70 years. Ezra who wrote long after the 70 years linked the beginning of the 70 nit with Neb and events during his reign but that of King Zedekiah, who rebelled against Neb, thus bringing about the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE- 2 Chron. 36 11-20'

    Further, Jeremiah the Prophet, who prophesied against Judah in Jehoiakim's 4th year and Neb's 1st year, linked the beginning of the 70 years with Judah's destruction- Jer. 25:9 and the land becoming desolate -Jer. 25:11.

    Such biblical facts prove s that the 70 years had a definite beginning which could only be the destruction of Jerusalem and the desolation of Judah.

    Rebuttal 2:

    You merely overemphasize 'the statement 'these nations will serve the king of Babylon' at the expense of the previous statement 'And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror'. You must interpret the verse in its entirety and not pick and choose part of the verse that is made to fit your argument. Jeremiah includes the surrounding nation that would have been caught in the Babylonian maelstrom and along with Judah would come under Babylonian domination.

    Further, Jer. 29: 10 confirms the fact that the Jews were exiled to Babylon for 70 years after that period had ended would return home which of course was in 537 BCE with the Return under Cyrus as confirmed by Ezra-2 Chron. 36: 22

    Rebuttal 3

    Our claim is not confusing but quite clear. Jer 25:12 is directed to Babylon and describes Jehovah's judgement quite clearly, which included three things:

    1. Judgment against the king of Babylon

    2. Judgement against the nation of Babylon

    3. Judgement against the land of Chaldeans

    Now, the question when did such events occur? Was it at the time of Babylon's Fall? Clearly not because Jeremiah introduced this prophetic judgment with this condition: 'But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account..." No, these 70 years was the prophecy of Jeremiah who in the previous verse 11 described the 70 years as the following:

    1. Destruction of the land, surrounding nations and its inhabitants, the land will be reduced to ruins -Jer. 25: 9,11

    2. Judah and the surrounding nations would serve Babylon for 70 years

    The prophecy clearly shows that the 70 years would have a composite end, which would include the land of Judah having been desolate; thus, it could only be after the return of the jews from captivity or Exile and returned home to resettle the land that the judgement against Babylon in a full way according to Jeremiah's prophecy would be accomplished from 537 BCE and not with the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE

    Rebuttal 4.

    Josephus records that in Neb's 18th year, he took Jerusalem and according to accurate bible Chronology this could only have been 607 BCE and not the false date of either 586 or 587 BCE.Josephus in his many descriptions of the 70 years mirrors JW interpretation of the 70 years as to its nature and its chronology

    Archaeology is always a work in progress, but it has made discoveries in Judah and surrounding areas that support the Biblical prophecies that the land would be desolate and suffer immediate destruction. However, archaeologists use traditional chronology and affix the date 586 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction rather than 587 BCE, which highlights the 'fuzziness' about the dating using secular chronology as opposed to accurate bible chronology.

    Astronomy, as with all other sciences, is too a work in progress. Rolf Furuli PhD, along with other WT researchers,s have analysed VAT 4956 which traditionally dates Neb's 37 the year to 568 BCE However, recent research has proved that the astronomical data contained in the tablet proves 588 BCE rather than 568 BCE

    In short, Josephus, Archaeology and Astronomy all support 607 BCE rather than 586 or 587 BCE despite what current scholarship claims. The fact is that scholarship does not believe in Bible prophecy or that the Bible is God's inspired Word, so there is a major problem here for the honest inquirer.

    Rebuttal 5.

    Daniel describes the fact that Neb was vacant from the throne for 7 years, which, although discussed in the Bible, is unaccounted for in secular history except for Josephus, despite the fact that this event was well published in literary form at that time throughout the Empire. Yet, WT critics would have us believe in the supposed integrity of the Babylonian history and records. What bunkum!

    Rebuttal 6.

    The simple and obvious fact is that COJ in his GTR omits any discussion of the Exile, and the word rarely appears throughout the many editions of his published work. He discusses everything else in some detail but omits the 'elephant in the room' - the Jewish Exile and this is supposed to be scholarship. What a joke!

    Rebuttal 7.

    Counting back 70 years from 537 BCE as the date for the return of the Jews under Cyrus to the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE is a work of beauty, arithmetic and utter genius. Its simplicity in argument or rhetoric is outstanding and irrefutable. WT critics hate this simple logic WT critics hate the fact that celebrated WT scholars have selected the established fact of 539 BCE - Fall of Babylon as a suitable anchor point for our strong cable of Chronology. This date nicely 537 BCE as the only possible date for the Return which nicely bookends the 70 years beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE.

    Rebuttal 8.

    The multiple deportations listed but not described in detail by Jeremiah in ch, 52 are consistent with exile and the Exile of 70 years.Hence the formula Exile= Deportation + Vacancy or E = D+ V.

    Jeremiah explicitly prophesied that the land would become desolate- an object of astonishment - a horror - without an inhabitant throughout, and again Ezra described the land as having been desolate, in order to pay off its sabbaths for 70 years.

    The biblical and historical fact is that Judah was desolate for a fixed period of 70 years.

    Rebuttal 9

    It makes no difference what other scholars believe or think about the Gentile Times. The Bible teaches this and history, both ancient and modern, confirms this reality despite what other scholars, critics try to spin or deceive the many. The Gentile Times is anchored to a secure, well-established chronology that is simple and readily understood by the common man. This teaching is not in isolation but is part of bible Chronology and right from the 1870's Bible Students had well demonstrated their competence in Chronology right up to the present. in WT chronology its has been published chronology on the Birth and Death of our Lord Jesus Christ as well as coherent tables on the Divided Monarchy which has given scholars much grief and perplexity.

    One Line of Evidence That Is Claimed to Disprove 607 BCE

    VAT 4956 fails because recent research has proved that Neb's 37th year was not 568 BCE but 588 BCE which directly proves 607 BCE

    A proof for your claim is a letter by Jacob Halsey in 2018, but I ask the following questions:

    1. Did he receive a reply, and if so, why is it not published?

    2. What is his methodology in the analysis of VAT 4956?

    3. Did he critically examine Furuli's research?

    4. Why did he not use the same astro=programs as Furuli, and did he use the same methodology as Furuli?

    In conclusion, one must follow the evidence wherever it leads. Careful exegesis is necessary for proper biblical interpretation of the Bible, and this applies well to the many 70-year texts that describe the 70 years in detail. The date 607 BCE is based on the Bible, and it is based on the 70 years - a definite historic period with a known beginning and end described by the prophets- Jeremiah, Daniel and Zexhariah and the historians Ezra and Josephus as a period of Exile - Desolation-Servitude.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    aqwsed12345

    Are you Jacob Halsey?

    scholar JW

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Duran:

    The correct understanding is the 'appointed times of the nations' (gentile times) are 42 months/the 2nd woe and are future when the 8th king is given authority. That is the time of the GT and Jesus comes AFTER that time and that is when Rev 11:15/3rd woe is fulfilled.
    Still future:
    Trumpets 1-5
    Trumpet 6
    Trumpet 7 (last trumpet)
    No. The 42 months (specifically the ‘trampling of the holy city’) was indeed the ‘great tribulation’ but it culminated in 70 CE. Jesus was expected to return shortly after (‘within a generation’ of his death) but he didn’t. Revelation is about the 1st and early 2nd centuries. The ’7th trumpet’ was simply a historical failure based on early Christian superstitions rather than ‘still future’. There’s no need to replace ‘scholar’s’ faulty superstitions with other faulty superstitions.
  • Duran
    Duran

    scholar

    How come you can reply to aqwsed writing a whole essay worth, but you can't reply to a simple question of:

    Do you believe Rev 11:15 was fulfilled in 1914 as the 02WT says or in 1918 after the 1,260 days ended as the 51WT says???

    [w02 11/1 - In 1914 the prophetic words of Revelation 11:15 were fulfilled: The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”]

    [w51 7/15 - At this eventful time the seventh angel blows his trumpet, that is, after the 1,260 days ended in 1918. Then it is that these wonders can come to pass. “And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven saying: The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king for ever and ever.’]

  • scholar
    scholar

    Duran

    How come you can reply to aqwsed writing a whole essay worth, but you can't reply to a simple question of:

    --

    Because you write nonsense.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    Poor 'scholar' seems to forget that I have personally checked all the observations. And it's 568 BCE doofus. Let's review the lunar observations for 588 BCE... even if we ignore the planetary observations, it's not good.

    --

    A pretty coloured chart is not scholarship you should take a look at Furuli' scholarship wherein he presents scores of pages of analysis proving that VAT 4956 is properly dated to 588 BCE and not the 568 BCE nonsense.

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro and Duran

    No. The 42 months (specifically the ‘trampling of the holy city’) was indeed the ‘great tribulation’ but it culminated in 70 CE. Jesus was expected to return shortly after (‘within a generation’ of his death) but he didn’t. Revelation is about the 1st and early 2nd centuries. The ’7th trumpet’ was simply a historical failure based on early Christian superstitions rather than ‘still future’. There’s no need to replace ‘scholar’s’ faulty superstitions with other faulty superstitions--

    --

    Partly correct for the opening chapters of the book of Revelation but according to the events inspired by vision began from the lord's Day which we know commenced in 1914 CE which also concerned historical developments with the Lord's people- Jehovah's Witnesses. Besides that fact, do not forget about the eschatological triennium: 1914-1918-1919.You gotta love Eschatology!

    scholar JW

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    ‘scholar’:

    Partly correct for the opening chapters of the book of Revelation but according to the events inspired by vision began from the lord's Day which we know commenced in 1914 CE which also concerned historical developments with the Lord's people- Jehovah's Witnesses.

    😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣

    Obviously I won’t be taking advice from you about interpreting Revelation. The arrogant delusion that Revelation is about JWs gave me a good laugh though.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    'scholar':

    A pretty coloured chart is not scholarship you should take a look at Furuli' scholarship wherein he presents scores of pages of analysis proving that VAT 4956 is properly dated to 588 BCE and not the 568 BCE nonsense.

    He's still distracted by the 'pretty colours'. It's a pity (for him) that he can't refute the words. 🤣

    Still prattling on about fringe author Furuli. 🤦‍♂️🤣🙄

  • Duran
    Duran
    Because you write nonsense.

    LOL! I didn't write anything there in asking that question. I cited two WTS excerpts and asked you which one you believe is correct.

    So, the only nonsense that you are referring too, is what the WTS wrote.

    [w02 11/1 - In 1914 the prophetic words of Revelation 11:15 were fulfilled: The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”]
    [w51 7/15 - At this eventful time the seventh angel blows his trumpet, that is, after the 1,260 days ended in 1918. Then it is that these wonders can come to pass. “And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven saying: ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king for ever and ever.’]

    Do you believe Rev 11:15 was fulfilled in 1914 as the 02WT says or in 1918 after the 1,260 days ended as the 51WT says??

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit