born again Christians

by ymrah 212 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Billygoat

Dansk,
I get the impression that you are a Born Again Christian, but that your BA beliefs don't always fit with other BACs beliefs. Am I right?

Yes.
If so, what kind of a BA are you?

Don't try to box me into a "type of BA". It is not a title. It is an experience. I've experienced being Born Again because I have accepted God's give of salvation. It is truly MUCH MORE SIMPLE than most make it. I have accepted the gift that he offers to EVERYONE. No I didn't say the cheesy born again prayer that most churches require. LOL! But I did say it in my own words from my own heart. I didn't make a spectacle of my decision by walking down to the front of the church. Why? Because my acceptance of this gift was PERSONAL. My life will reflect that I've made the decision. I don't need to SHOW everyone by walking down to the pastor. Others feel the need to do that. It's OKAY. Their decision is NOT MINE.
I know you say you follow Christ, but how can a BA pick and choose what parts of Born Again Christianity they want?

Because I have experienced being born again does NOT mean I am obligated to accepting beliefs I cannot accept or do not understand. Says who? Says me. I have the freedom as a human to take this as slowly or as quickly as I want. I will not be forced to believe something I don't. I have faith that one day all of my questions will be answered. In the meantime I believe what I believe and God I have a great time!
Just a couple extra thoughts...
I am probably one of the few Born Again Christians that don't believe I have all the answers. LOL! I think religious doctrine has a tendency to "box" neat little answers for the masses. Why? IMO two reasons: One because religion leadership may be uncomfortable saying "I don't know". Two the masses rely TOO heavily on religious leadership to give them answers. They want a pat answer so they can move on with their pat lives. When they don't get pat answers (because they're too lazy to pray, research, read the bible on their own) they move to another church that gives pat answers. One of the reasons why I love my church so much is that several times when I've gottten into deep doctrinal conversations I've gotten the "I dont know" answer. He gave me his opinion, but with the comment of "some of these things aren't meant to be answered yet Andi. Some of these things we'll find out, but later in this life or later in another life. In the meantime I'm not going to put words into God's mouth." The humility my pastor showed was surprising and refreshing.
Many religions try to look at the Bible as a book of answers. I look at the Bible as a book of questions. God gives us discernment and the desire to SEARCH...a hunger if you will. He gives us a brain to think for ourselves. Might some of what we think be wrong? I'm sure it will be. One day I might be facing God and he'll be saying "Andi all these years you've had it wrong." But I also believe that he will see my heart and KNOW that I did everything I could to NOT be wrong. To live my life correctly and by His Word. Will he have mercy on me? I hope so. And actually think he will. As He will have mercy on all of those that have the right heart condition.
Many religions think that hunger should be filled with their doctrines. *shrug* Many religions try to "create" answers to questions that simply CANNOT be answered in this lifetime. I don't know if it's because we came from a background where EVERYTHING had an answer, but today...right now...I am totally okay answering a question with I DON'T KNOW. Who says I have to have all the answers now? Society? Religious leaders? *wave of dismissal* It's my life. It's my salvation. God and I are walking at our own pace.
Sorry if my points seemed scattered here. I'm at work and shouldn't be here right now. The phones are ringing off the hook and I'm getting distracted. Don't these people know I'm on the web???
Andi
Sirona

Dansk
I should have made myself clearer. By "pagan" I meant "neo-pagan", referring to the modern earth religions. Basically, Wiccans, Witches, Druids, etc.
Traditionally "pagan" was a non-christian, but somewhere I remember reading that the word is derived from a word meaning "country dweller".
As far as I can see none of the major religions can make a connection to God, so perhaps yours is the way!
LOL! Divine "connection" is a personal thing IMO, so religions as a whole probably don't manage it.
Sirona
Billygoat

I really did try to find god. He never turned up. The experiences people recount give me no clue as to this exclusion other than my mind isn't susceptable to that form of belief. Either that, or the Calvanists are right, which is a thought so chilling I'm gonna stop this post now.

Hi Abbadon. I'm curious. Why does that chill you? Do you believe in Hellfire? Or Predestination? (I'm not being smart...truly curious!)
Andi
Sirona

Abaddon,
Great post by the way.
Obviously it is illogical to doubt a well intentioned person's subjective internal experiences.
But that is different from believing them to be true in any objective external sense.
Yes. I agree completely. Personally I tend to accept my personal spiritual experiences as being part of me rather than some external force saying "hi". Occasionally something happens where information I "visualise" appears to be regarding things of which I thought I had no prior knowledge. Yes, I am all for the theory that I may have seen or heard this information subconsiously. Still, sometimes its wierd. There are some things you couldn't have known even subconsiously. Maybe a scientific explanation will appear for this sort of phenomenon.
I accept that I may be religious because part of me needs it. I do feel a deep fulfillment from it, and I really believe and I love it. I accept that to some people that seems totally irrational, but I don't really care. LOL.
Its a different situation when someone forces their ideas onto you and insists that its "truth". I don't agree with this anymore than you do.
Whether there is a god of some description or not is another question. But the Christian god seems no more valid, other than in the head count of adherants, than Amon-Ra as far as logic goes.
I agree - a good point for those who claim their ONE god is the only true one.
Sirona
Abaddon

Hi Sirona, good to se ya here and a smashing Beltane to you; thanks for your comments, your viewpoint is always interesting.
Billygoat; this is in haste as I have a train to catch; Calvanism is a vile philosphy of ashes, the concepts of presuppositonalism and predestination are ludicrous. The whole thing is the sort of thing that, IMHO, would get Jesus really pissed off, as it makes beliefa concordat of fear rather than one of love.
I don;t believe in hellfire, and find a philosophy that hinges upon it appaling
Choo Choo...
Billygoat

Is it any wonder many of us have had it with Christianity!

Dansk, no it is not a wonder to me at all. I've actually been where you are now. In fact, back when I left the JWs I was so against religion and the bible and God. I never believed there was NOT a God. (I have a hard time grasping us complex humans just evolved.) So I always knew there was a creator. But I thought he was a hateful, angry, vengeful being. That was at least the God the JWs painted for me. It dawned on me one time that perhaps their painting of God was incorrect. That perhaps even their bible was incorrect. With research and eventually prayer I figured out their teachings were not just false, but false in an order to CONTROL ME. I think there's a difference.
I don't have all the answers. I have lots of questions. I consider myself to be openminded. I am loving and accepting of all people, whether Christian or not. That is the type of person Jesus was on earth. What's wrong with that? So far, I can't find anything wrong with that...in fact my life has been 100 times better because of it.
Billygoat

Abaddon,
I understand what Calvinism's basic thoughts are, but I didn't state my question very well. (Sorry!) My question was WHY does this chill you if you don't believe it? Why be fearful of something you don't think is there?
Andi
JamesThomas

It seems that whenever people believe in anthropomorphic god's and deities who are separate and apart from us there comes an automatic caveat and demand that you must do thus and so to earn your way back to your gods graces -- if not, your bird food. A man-made idea of god always comes with restrictions, levies and ultimatums. It's possible if you are good enough, or spiritual enough, you can make your way over to your god's side. You can be a member of the exclusive club and you can put a bumper sticker on your car. You see, when we create gods in our own image, they act and behave like us -- and not the best of us. They are conditional, exclusionary, revengeful, and have their little clique of special ones. They make an exceptionally efficient tool of enslavement in the expert hands of Religion. Strangely, few notice a major contradiction. Many here, if they were God, would automatically fix the ills of the entire world. They would not require hoops or conditions to be met or jumped through. We would not demand recognition as peoples Savior in order for us to save them. Oh, I imagine some would, but these would be selfish egomaniacs -- much like our gods. Generally, your average kind person, is far more Christ-like, than the god most people worship. If it was in our power we would give healing and love to all unconditionally; and now, rather than putting it off into some future time. So, if many of us have higher moral standards than our god's, could it be our concepts and interpretations of God, are wrong? There are those of all religions who have had degrees of inner spiritual experiences, a loving sense of the mysterious Presence of our Source. Unfortunately, most always these people give credit to their religion and use it to strengthen and support their idea of God: if it wasn't for Jesus, or if it wasn't for Allah, or if it wasn't for Buddha, or Krishna, or whatever label they have pinned on their god. Could it be that the true Source of this universe, that which many call "God", is equally present within all? No matter what beliefs or lack of beliefs we cherish and value? Could it be our blindness and ignorance, rather than God's limits and absence, that makes us think otherwise? Could it be that we are separate from God, only because we believe we are? Religious deities are always exclusionary, that is their nature. The problems arise, when we mistake them for Truth. JamesT
Dansk

Hi Andi,
I've experienced being Born Again because I have accepted God's give of salvation.
Ok, I'm happy for you! But what about Hellfire? You say you accept God's gift of salvation, but do you believe that those who don't accept this gift go to Hell?
Dansk
Dansk

Great post, JT.
You see, when we create gods in our own image, they act and behave like us -- and not the best of us. They are conditional, exclusionary, revengeful, and have their little clique of special ones. They make an exceptionally efficient tool of enslavement in the expert hands of Religion.

Absolutely!
Generally, your average kind person, is far more Christ-like, than the god most people worship.
Definitely!
Dansk

born again Christians

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