by Touchofgrey 189 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Daniel was written around 167-164 BCE so not a book of prophecy.
You have very cleverly gone off topic which is What evidence is there of a biblical jesus?
So can you please provide independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that the bible claims he did?
The gospels are not eyewitnes accounts.
But then the appointed king would replace them as supreme authority, as you say. That's where we are now. The Israelite priesthood is history. After Jesus' death and resurrection their temple sacrifices also mean nothing. Jesus is a priest according to Melchizedek. He will become king of the Messianic kingdom in the near future, therefore qualifying as the Messiah. Some of God's people will also be anointed, but none qualify as the Messiah.
Touchofgrey, no we are still on topic with the dating of Daniel and his "messiah." But here’s a few convincing occurrences and snippets of history. These did not fall out of thin air. Included also is a few places you can visit:
1. The place and nature of his birth.
2. The murderous nature of Herod.
3. The synagogue where Jesus taught in his adopted hometown—Capernaum.
4. Peter’s house in Capernaum.
5. The pool of Bethesda.
6. The pool of Siloam.
7. The nature of the town of Bethany where Jesus raised Lazarus—Leper colony, “the place of Lazarus”, tomb that matches John 11:38.
8. The temple place of the trumpeting.
9. The Caiaphas ossuary (also the Miriam Ossuary—granddaughter of Caiaphas)
10. The James ossuary.
11. The miracles of Jesus—he’s admitted as a miracle worker even by non-Christian sources.
12. The fearful nature of Pilate—Why was Pilate afraid of upsetting the Jews? Archaeological evidence of Pilate includes coins, a ring, an inscription, and ancient writers).
13. The nature and place of burial and resurrection: Tomb of the Shroud (nature of the burial), Church of the Holy Sepulcher, place of the burial and resurrection
14. Nazareth inscription.
15. The murderous nature of Herod Agrippa I.
16. The early spread of Christianity and the belief in the Resurrection.
17. The graffiti found in Rome.
. The miracles of Jesus—he’s admitted as a miracle worker even by non-Christian sources.
Can you provide the non Christian sources that have been independently verified.
The rest don't prove that jesus was a miracle worker just people and places in history, these sound like the minimal facts excuses from gary habermas.
Can you provide the non Christian sources that have been independently verified.
"Christian" means a follower of Jesus.
Jehovah God is not a follower of Jesus. Jehovah God is the one who Jesus follows.
Jehovah God spoke from heaven and verified that Jesus was God's son and beloved and that we should listen to him.
On another occasion, God spoke to Jesus from heaven and the entire crowd heard it, which included both those who chose to follow Christ and those who did not choose to follow him.
This is recorded in the gospels which are not eyewitness accounts written decades after the so called events so cannot be independently verified.
Paul wrote decades after some of the events recorded in the gospels took place.
Paul was not a Christian when he saw Jesus the first time.
In fact, Paul was intensely opposed to Jesus the first time he met him.
He wrote about his experience and talked to a lot of people about it, both people who were believers and who were not believers.
There is plenty of information about Paul's existence and travels.
What do you mean by 'independently verified'?
Scholars, historians, archaeologists, scientists?
Would you accept any of their conclusions? I know I wouldn't because they're human, prone to mistakes...to greed..fame...power.
People believe what they want to believe, and what they don't want to believe. So long as it harms no one, benefits themselves and even others, who are any of us to demand proof of their beliefs?
Whoever said these words 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' was a very very wise man, because if each and every one of us, spoke to and acted towards each other as we wish to be spoken to and treated, this world would be a joyful wonderful beautiful planet to thrive on.
That's good enough for me. Peace be with you all.
Rabbinic Jewry was dead against Jesus and his followers. Interestingly they had a lot to say about Jesus in their Talmud. It's not flattering at all, but that should tell you something. His enemies never said that he did not exist. Actually they did confirm his existence by attacking him, his methods and followers. He was certainly a thorn in their flesh: "Scattered throughout the Talmud, the founding document of rabbinic Judaism in late antiquity, can be found quite a few references to Jesus—and they’re not flattering. The rabbis of the Talmud read, understood, and used the New Testament Jesus narrative to assert, ultimately, Judaism’s superiority over Christianity. The Talmudic stories make fun of Jesus’ birth from a virgin, fervently contest his claim to be the Messiah and Son of God, and maintain that he was rightfully executed as a blasphemer and idolater. They subvert the Christian idea of Jesus’ resurrection and insist he got the punishment he deserved in hell—and that a similar fate awaits his followers."
🤦♂️ the same tired apologetics. Not responding to all that guff from overnight. Notice how he not only doubled down on the Daniel interpretation but also simply ignored the fact about who Daniel said would be ‘cut off at the half of the week’. Similarly the apologist claims Daniel 9 doesn’t fit because Antiochus IV ‘didn’t destroy Jerusalem’, but Daniel 9:27 says the abomination (desecration) would be “set up” “at the temple” and doesn’t even claim that Jerusalem would be destroyed. Always recognise these pathetic bait-and-switch attempts.. And yes, priests were anointed (Exodus 29:7; Leviticus 8:12; Psalm 133:2; Hebrews 5:4 etc).
