What evidence is there for a biblical jesus?

by Touchofgrey 189 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  peacefulpete

  As a tangent, what evidence is there for a historical Socrates? Nearly everything thought to be known about him is drawn from Plato's dialogs. Problem is Plato uses Socrates as a literary foil, a mouthpiece. Plato's evolving depiction of Socrates is so evident some scholars believe they can divide Plato's works into early and later collections based upon it. Xenophon also used Socrates as a dialog character, but his depiction contradicts Plato's. The playwright Aristophanes alludes to him in mocking derision in his comedies. In short, we know nothing. A number of specialists have concluded Socrates was in reality a phantom, a purely literary character from a shared cultural consciousness; a meme using modern vernacular. That may be incorrect, but in any practical sense it doesn't matter.

  For what it's worth I imagine Socrates as a historical person, why because he is merely depicted as smartass who answered questions with more questions. He didn't glow in the dark or turn water into wine.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Is there any independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that the bible said he did?

  
  No.
  How could there be?
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  ukpimo

  Peacefulpete

  I'm afraid your comment is nonsensical, as Jesus isn't ever described as passing through crowds and walls, as if he can morph his way through them as you might see in some sci fi or supernatural films. And Jesus isn't analogous with Apollo or Shiva. He's practically treated as a local magician by his people. Even the book of Mark portrays Jesus in a more realistic light than John. Either way, all gospels agree that Jesus had some sort of supernatural powers, but this didn't make him a supernatural being.

  TonusOH,

  You appear to be making a point without making a point, I don't seem to understand you. So you're saying there is an off chance that someone could be believable, but only if we actually lived at the time that person lived? And yet the Gospels acknowledge a very human trait that Jesus himself said in John 10:24 - 26

  Then the Jews surrounded him and began to say to him: “How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

  Jesus answered them: “I told you, and yet you do not believe. The works that I am doing in my Father’s name, these bear witness about me. But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep."

  NWT

  Jesus himself said that you have to be a sheep. As ironic as it is, if you're not a sheep, you'll never believe. And you prove that true.
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  Jeffro

  Vidqun:

  Jeffro, this one was made especially for you:

  Awww… you made a picture of yourself for me. You shouldn’t have.
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  peacefulpete

  29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.

  19 That Sunday evening[a] the disciples were meeting behind locked doors because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders. Suddenly, Jesus was standing there among them! “Peace be with you,” he said.
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  Touchofgrey

  The four gospels were written decades after the so called events by unknown authors, so they are not eyewitnes of anything the so called jesus did or said .there is no evidence that the jesus of the gospels had any supernatural powers

  If he existed he was just a end of time preacher who upset the romans so they killed him and the stories grew from there.
• 

  Duran

  Atheist - 1

  Bible believing folk - 0

  Atheist have been right so far. Nothing in the Bible from the past can be proven true today. And anything said from the Bible to happen in the future, has not so far happen.

  Basically, an atheist is on the surface automatically right until proven wrong and a believer is automatically wrong until proven right.

  The only way an atheist could ever be proven wrong is for something Biblical to take place which would in turn show that the Bible believing folk were right all along.
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  Vidqun

  Touchofgrey, whenever there's various eyewitness, there will invariably be differences and contradictions. No two people see the same event in the same way. So the few contradictions are easily explained by differences in background, personality, circumstance, writing style and time passed since it was documented.

  Albert Huck's "Synopsis of the First Three Gospels with the addition of the Johannine Parallels," edited by Heinrich Greeven, is a valuable resource for study in this regard. I have the 13th edition. As far as I can remember, Kurt Aland also published a synopsis of the four gospels. There are differences, and that is to be expected.

  E.g., "in the healing of the blind man (men?) near Jericho, Luke states it took place as Jesus “drew near to Jericho” (Luke 18:35). Matthew attests it happened after Jesus leaves Jericho and there were two blind men healed (Matt. 9:27). Mark narrates both the entrance and exit of Jesus from Jericho; and while leaving Jesus encounters and heals blind Bartimaeus (Mark 10:46)." Questions that come up: How many blind men did Jesus heal on that day? Was he coming or going or both? Did the writer(s) witness the occasion or was it narrated to them?
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  peacefulpete

  ....treated as a local magician by his people.

  That is the point of the story, his people do not recognize him for what and who he was.

  Even the book of Mark portrays Jesus in a more realistic light than John.

  You raise a good question; Do the supernatural aspects of Jesus grow with each retelling? (each successive Gospel). B. Ehrman takes that position as support for a historical Jesus. I see how he comes to that, but he is dismissing the writer's style of subtlety. The reader is to come to the conclusion just as the centurion does at the end of the story:

  Certainly, this was God’s Son!

  This apparently frustrated some copyists sufficiently that they added this identification in the opening verse. 1:1

  The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, (the Son of God)
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  Touchofgrey

  Vidqun

  All scriptures are inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, reproving and setting things straight.

  If god inspired these men with such a important message about his son and the future of mankind, you would think he would have made sure that their story's all match up and no contradictions ,and would have made sure that the message was clear and understandable with no ambiguity and the original copys were preserved for our day.