WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM? (page 4)

Touchofgrey

Sin is a imaginary disease invented by religions to sell you an imaginary cure .

There was no adam so no fall into sin.

So the imaginary jesus paid a imaginary ransom for your imaginary sin.

Sea Breeze

Earning salvation by trying to live a good life seems like a reasonable idea. If it's granted for any other reason, doesn't that imply that trying to live a good life is meaningless?
Romans 11: 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. ESV
Romans 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight
If you or I were running the show, we would likely have some sort of merit system. This works in school, it works in business, etc. But, we are not running the show, and we did not create the whole thing, so we don't get to dictate the terms.
God has decided that the spirit of man is unfixable, it must die. God is not asking us to agree to something that he wasn't willing to do himself. But, all the same he is asking us to die to ourselves and abandon ourselves to a new spirit that he will personally give each person when they decide to trust in Jesus alone.

So, while works are important, they are not necessary for Salvation. The are necessary to prove Salvation. Once a person is born again, his good works are acceptable, but he can only take credit for them insomuch that he recognizes they have come from the new spirit and are free from every vestige of the sin nature.
To the unregenerated man, this is an outrage. But, in God's economy, the more you work for Salvation, the more sin debt you will owe on Judgment Day. Think about that!
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.” - Romans 4: 4

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: God has decided that the spirit of man is unfixable, it must die.

So... his original design was broken and must be fixed through lifetimes of suffering and eventual death, and then we spend an eternity in an afterlife that is determined based on acknowledging that God is in charge, and not on the kind of life we lead and the kind of person we became?

That doesn't seem reasonable. I don't think that a being who behaves this way is following a standard that we would recognize as just. Or good. It doesn't make sense.

Sea Breeze

That doesn't seem reasonable.

I'll tell you what doesn't seem reasonable. God offers a substitute for the death penalty that we are under and offers to make us part of his family where he is obligated by blood to take care of us and nuture us, & personally see to our happiness forever. But, but many people would rather spend an eternity in hell rather than to receive his offer.

That is what is truly unreasonable.

Duran

God offers a substitute for the death penalty that we are under

Who put us under that death penalty?

What did you personally do to deserve that death penalty?

Vidiot

Touchofgrey - “…Sin is a imaginary disease invented by religions to sell you an imaginary cure…”

Touchofgrey

but many people would rather spend an eternity in hell rather than to receive his offer.

Sea breeze can you explain what you mean by spending eternity in hell ?

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: God offers a substitute for the death penalty that we are under

We are under that penalty as a result of his actions and his decisions. God is not obligated to do anything. No one can compel him to action. The outcomes are what he specifically desires, because he created everything. Not just the universe, or the planet, or the life on that planet. He wrote the rules. The physics, metaphysics, moral structures, laws of nature... all of it. Nothing happens that is not expressly his desire, or his design, or his fault.

Threatening me with eternal punishment under those circumstances is not just unreasonable, it is supremely unjust.

BoogerMan

I think eternal non-existence is a far more accurate description than eternal punishment.

It's a state, not an ongoing disciplining regime!

Sea Breeze

TonusOH,

We are under the death penalty because WE sin, not Adam. We simply inherited his nature. How is it a threat to you to offer to die in your place? I don't get the heartburn you're having.

I don't know if you are M or F, or even if that matters because both men and women can sometimes display incredible willingness to trade their life for that of a child in certain extreme circumstances. The concept of trading your life for someone else's makes for some very good literature.... it is a recurring theme. When the Titanic went down, some gave up their seat so another could live.

It is not only a common concept, but universally recognized as the pinnacle of virtue.

Why is it bad if God desires to rescue his Children?

@BM

I think eternal non-existence is a far more accurate description than eternal punishment.

I agree that is more comfortable to believe in. But, the reality is that God created man with an eternal spirit, a consciousness. Because we were created to enjoy him forever. We get to choose where we will be conscious forever - in the presence and family of God enjoying all the cool stuff he can make. Or, away from his presence, family and all the cool stuff he made.

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

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