Is Jesus the Creator? (page 3)

Sea Breeze

Duran,

How many things in your life do you practice that are not specifically commanded in the Bible?

In other words, do you place the same restrictions on yourself that you place on others?

moomanchu

Duran : If Jesus wanted his birth memorialize year after year, he would have made the date know and made it known to do so.

Yeah, and If Jesus didn't want people to memoralize his birth he would have done so. Now what?

I didn't hear the "why not" explanation in your answer.

People are allowed to pick and choose any day or thing they want to celebrate.

This a such a stupid thing to argue about. The one thing the Israelites and the whole human race was waiting for, the coming of the savior of the world.

Don't you dare try to memoralize that !!!

You could get the date wrong!!!

Duran

The one thing the Israelites and the whole human race was waiting for, the coming of the savior of the world.
Don't you dare try to memoralize that !!!

Yes, they were waiting for that, and he came. And it would have been a great time to rejoice on his arrival/being born. But his being born was not what saves, it is his death that does. He had to be born in order to be alive to be put to death. Jesus put the emphasis on memorializing his death not his birth.

Is there anything in the Bible of Joseph and Mary celebrating Jesus' birth yearly?

How many things in your life do you practice that are not specifically commanded in the Bible?
In other words, do you place the same restrictions on yourself that you place on others?

Do you even know what you are talking about. We are not talking about ourselves or others. We are talking about Jesus and ourselves. If the Bible is the word of God and he had it written for us to come to know him, etc. through the Bible, then the restrictions (as you call them) would be determined by what is or not written in the Bible.

Let me ask you this...do you celebrate Halloween? If not, why?

peacefulpete

Duran, Maybe think about the fact that Jesus is depicted as celebrating Hanukah. The Temple lights filled the night. That was not a celebration directed in the OT.

Also consider, when the last supper (Passover according to Synoptic Gospels) is described, it is not according to the directions in Exodus but followed traditions adapted from Greek Symposium tradition. The Talmud accommodates these changes on the grounds that the situation had changed. They were no longer slaves. Rather than hastily eat standing with sandals on and staff in hand, the now ate relaxed and reclining on a couch. They used wine, which was forbidden as the prohibition against yeast or any product of yeast in the homes and defied the theme of haste. The multiple cups of wine and singing are all later traditions not in the OT. They also no longer put blood on doorposts which was directed. The point is an honest look at the NT stories and epistles reveals not an obsession with the past or a literal interpretation of the OT but an evolving living faith with people adapting to new circumstances and cultural influences.

Happy Holidays

Duran

Maybe think about the fact that Jesus is depicted as celebrating Hanukah. The Temple lights filled the night.

Jesus being present at events was because he went where the crowds were. Where every he was present it was to teach and to establish greater realities.

And in regard to the Passover in how it changed from the original night down to the night Jesus had it last with his disciples is not relevant to the topic of Christmas and the claim that it is memorializing the birth of Jesus.

For Jesus' followers there was no need to have another Passover meal in the manner in which it had been done up until that night. He was now the Passover Lamb and the observances of that from that point on (until he comes again) would be about the proclaiming his death (as the Passover Lamb) by eating and drinking of the bread and wine. (his body and blood)

TonusOH

Wasn't it Rutherford who ended Christmas celebrations at Bethel and forbade celebrating it? I assume it was him because he seemed to make a lot of policy/doctrinal decisions based on his apparent desire to differentiate the organization from mainstream Christianity. Making a big fuss about the birth date of Jesus versus the birthday of Jesus is the kind of contrarian nonsense that characterized so many of his decisions.

peacefulpete

Duran if you prefer to argue that the writer of the Gospel intended us to understand Jesus attended celebrations only to be by crowds, aren't you free to do the same? Personally, I attend Christmas parties without being concerned about the religious aspects many still attach to it. Friends and family are more important than any of the other traditions of Christmas anyway.

joey jojo

John is the gospel that differs from the other three with respect to the amount of interest it has in the nature of jesus and his relationship with god. John was also the last gospel written (around 100 ce). That means that John may have been written up to 30 years after the others.

The differences in style and the late date should arouse suspicions. John is the most quoted book in relation to the trinity and the father/son nature of jesus. It may reflect a bias toward a teaching or movement that started after the first 3 gospels were written.

This is a known, debated historical fact. It isnt just me saying it. If you are heavily relying on one book, John, above all others to 'prove' a trinity, then, are you being honest with yourself? It definitely raises questions if John has such a point of difference to the other 3 books. Why dont the other 3 gospels address this extremely important topic like John does? Something fishy going on here.

John reads like it is making statements of faith and taking liberties rather than documenting events like the first 3 gospels.

peacefulpete

joey...The Gospel of John, counter to the order of writing, may in fact represent a branch of Christianity more primitive than the other Gospels. Sure, much of the narrative is derived from the Synoptics yet it also relies upon sources independent from that. The Logos concept predates the Synoptics by hundreds of years as you know; that fact alone suggests the Christology of the prologue of John is likely very early. The community for whom the Gospel was written may have been, and I believe to have been, preserving elements of a more primitive concept of Christ.

Rivergang

I live at the same latitude as Jerusalem in Texas and sheep are outside year around,

That in itself means nothing at all. For example, the place where I grew up is on the same latitude as the south of France - however, its climate is not at all Mediterranean. (At times, more like sub-polar!)

There are, in fact, six other factors aside from latitude which determine the climate of a locality:

- Its altitude, aspect, distance from the sea, relief, plus direction of prevailing winds and the presence (or not) of ocean currents are each at least as important as its latitude.

None of this as exactly rocket science, either - more like what high school students learn during Grade 10 Geography.

Is Jesus the Creator?

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