Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze 405 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
    @Rattigan350

    Paul's statement in Colossians 1:16 ("For by him all things were created...") is not an isolated or novel theological concept. It aligns with the broader biblical narrative of the preeminence and creative work of the Son, rooted in both Jewish Scripture and early Christian revelation. The personification of wisdom in Proverbs 8:22-31describes wisdom as being present with God at creation. Early Christians, including Paul, understood Christ as the incarnate "wisdom of God" (1 Corinthians 1:24). This directly ties the creative work described in Colossians to Old Testament imagery. The role of the "Word" (logos) in creation is implicit in Genesis 1:1-3, where God speaks creation into existence. John later identifies Christ as the "Word" through whom all things were made (John 1:1-3), but this concept is rooted in Jewish thought about God's creative word and wisdom. Psalm 33:6 emphasizes the instrumental role of God's word in creation, prefigures the New Testament identification of Jesus as the divine Word. Paul’s theology integrates these Jewish ideas, understanding Christ as the agent of creation, not in contradiction to Jewish Scripture but as its fulfillment.

    The claim that Jesus is the "Son of God" (or "Son of the Supreme Being," as the argument rephrases it) does not contradict His creative role. In fact, the title "Son" affirms His unique relationship with the Father, which is essential for understanding His divine authority. In the cultural and theological context of the Bible, a "son" shares the nature of his father. For instance, Jesus’ claim to be the "Son of God" was understood by His contemporaries as a claim to equality with God (John 5:18). His sonship affirms, rather than denies, His divine identity and creative authority.

    So in Jewish thought, the term "Son of God" carries implications of divinity. For example, in John 10:30-33, Jesus states, "I and the Father are one." The Jews immediately sought to stone Him, saying, "You, being a man, make Yourself God." This shows that Jesus’ claim to be the Son of God was understood as a claim to divinity, not merely a title of honor. When Peter calls Jesus "the Christ, the Son of the living God," (Matthew 16:16) Jesus affirms the truth of this statement, declaring that it was revealed to Peter by God (Matthew 16:17). This declaration aligns with other passages where Jesus explicitly claims equality with God (e.g., John 8:58, John 14:9).

    In Matthew 4:3 the devil tempts Jesus, acknowledging Him as the Son of God. This reflects Jesus’ unique relationship with the Father and His divine mission, not a denial of His divinity. In Matthew 8:29 the demons recognize Jesus as the Son of God and express fear of His authority. Their acknowledgment underscores Jesus’ power and dominion, further affirming His role as Lord over all creation. Demons recognized Jesus as the "Son of God" (Luke 4:41), acknowledging His divine authority and identity. The fact that demons feared Him and obeyed His commands (Mark 1:24-27) further supports His divine nature, as only God holds such authority over spiritual beings.

    "Firstborn of all creation" (v. 15) does not mean Jesus is part of creation. In Jewish culture, "firstborn" signifies rank and preeminence, not chronological birth order. Jesus is supreme over all creation because He is its creator, as stated in verse 16. Verse 16 explicitly states that "all things" were created through and for Him, affirming His active role in creation.

    The argument assumes that Paul could not have written Colossians 1:16 because John’s Gospel was not yet available. Paul explicitly states that his gospel was received directly by revelation from Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:12). His understanding of Christ’s role in creation does not depend on John’s Gospel but on his divine commission and extensive knowledge of Jewish Scriptures. The belief in Christ’s role as creator was not unique to Paul. It was a core part of early Christian teaching, rooted in Jewish Scripture and affirmed by other New Testament writers (e.g., Hebrews 1:2-3).

    Paul’s statement in Colossians 1:16 is consistent with Jewish Scriptures and the broader New Testament revelation of Jesus Christ. The Son’s creative role does not diminish His sonship; instead, it emphasizes His unique relationship with the Father and His divine authority. Dismissing Paul's theology based on speculative assumptions about his sources ignores the coherence of biblical revelation. Colossians 1:16, far from being an innovation, reflects the fulfillment of Old Testament themes in the person and work of Christ, who is fully God and fully active in creation.

    The New Testament provides explicit statements from the apostles affirming Jesus’ deity. After the resurrection, Thomas directly addresses Jesus as "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28) Jesus does not correct Thomas but instead commends his faith, showing that this recognition is correct. Paul frequently affirms Jesus’ deity (Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13, Philippians 2:6). John 1:1 explicitly identifies Jesus (the Word) as God.

    The claim that Jesus did not predict a self-resurrection misunderstands both Scripture and Trinitarian theology. In John 2:19-21 Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John explains that "He was speaking of the temple of His body." In John 10:18 Jesus states, "No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again." These passages clearly show that Jesus predicted His own resurrection, demonstrating His divine authority over life and death. The New Testament attributes Jesus’ resurrection to the entire Trinity: God the Father raised Him (Acts 2:32, Galatians 1:1), the Holy Spirit raised Him (Romans 8:11), Jesus Himself took up His life (John 10:18), this reflects the cooperative work of the Trinity rather than any contradiction.

    Acts 2:32 and 2:36 emphasize God the Father’s role in Jesus’ resurrection and exaltation but do not diminish Jesus’ deity. "God made him both Lord and Christ": The term "made" here does not imply that Jesus became something He was not before. Rather, it refers to the formal recognition and declaration of Jesus’ roles as Lord and Messiah through His resurrection and exaltation. These roles were eternally His by nature but were revealed and confirmed to humanity in history. The title "Lord" (Kyrios) in the Greek Septuagint is the same word used for Yahweh, the divine name of God. Peter’s declaration in Acts 2:36 aligns with other New Testament affirmations of Jesus as divine Lord (e.g., Philippians 2:10-11).

    The argument that Jesus being dependent on the Father proves He is not God misunderstands Trinitarian theology. In the incarnation Jesus, as the Son, voluntarily took on human nature (Philippians 2:6-8). This included submitting to the Father’s will and relying on Him as an example of perfect obedience. His dependency reflects His role within the Trinity and His mission as the incarnate Son, not a denial of His divinity.

    The argument that Jesus could not resurrect Himself because "He was dead" misunderstands the nature of Christ’s death. Jesus’ death involved the separation of His human soul and body, not the cessation of His divine nature. As God, He remained fully active and sovereign even during His death. The effectiveness of Jesus’ sacrifice rests on His divine nature, as only an infinite being could provide atonement for the sins of humanity (Hebrews 9:12-14).

  • Duran
    Duran

    @Rattigan350

    Hey, I thought Satan is God...so, I guess Jesus is Satan...

    New International Version
    The God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

    New International Version
    The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
    @Duran

    Your statement seems to confuse the distinction between "god" (with a lowercase "g") and "God" (with a capital "G"), as well as misinterpret the verses you’ve cited. The phrase "god of this age" (2 Corinthians 4:4) refers to Satan's temporary and limited authority over the sinful world system, as allowed by the true God. It does not suggest that Satan is "God" in the sense of being divine, eternal, omnipotent, or the Creator. Paul uses the term "god of this age" to emphasize Satan's role in deceiving unbelievers and keeping them from recognizing the truth of the gospel. Satan is a created being, entirely subordinate to God, and his power is neither infinite nor self-existent. Satan’s "godhood" is metaphorical, referring to his influence over this age, not a statement of his divinity. His purpose is to blind unbelievers to the gospel, which displays the glory of Christ. This verse underscores Satan's role as an adversary of Christ, not an equivalence between the two.

    Colossians 1:15 clearly identifies Jesus as the "image of the invisible God," which means He perfectly reveals and represents God’s nature, essence, and character. It also refers to His preeminence ("firstborn" in rank and authority) over all creation. This verse celebrates Jesus' divine status, not as a created being but as the agent of creation itself (see Colossians 1:16-17). Jesus is not "a god" or "a creature," but the manifestation of the eternal God (John 1:1, 1:14). The phrase "firstborn over all creation" does not mean Jesus is part of creation but indicates His supremacy and authority over it.

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu

    aqwsed12345

    Your knowledgeable, comprehensive and noninsulting answers are admirable. Very patient, way more than me.

    Duran

    You seem to be a mocking, stuborn JW troll. Am I right?

    You are out of your league.

  • Duran
    Duran

    LOL! I am not nor was ever a JW.

    And only a true idiot would reply with an explanation to what was a facetious comment.

    Why don't you two get a room...

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    aqwsed - Im not an expert on this subject but your responses are clear manifestations of your faith. Faith does not require proof- just belief.

    This subject has been argued for and against. There is no clear, undeniable proof that jesus is god- equal to the father and if it was true, there should be absolutely no doubt about the subject. Jesus himself would have made it crystal clear. But he didnt.

    I say this with respect, this subject is a matter of faith.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    @joey jojo

    Yes, it's a common objection that if Jesus Christ is God, why did He not clearly and directly declare it? The argument that Jesus never explicitly says the words "I am God" and therefore cannot be fully divine misunderstands the way Jesus communicated His identity and the way Scripture reveals theological truths.

    The incarnation of the one true God and, with it, the revelation of the Trinity, was an extraordinary and overwhelming concept for the strictly monotheistic Jews, who, since the Babylonian exile, had conceived of God as utterly transcendent and unapproachable. The wisdom that "orders all things gently" did not permit the great mystery to blaze forth fully at once. The "sun" of this truth, at the moment of its rising, was not allowed to reach its zenith immediately, dazzling and intimidating all with its brightness. Instead, its early rays, filtering through the clouds of restraint, needed to accustom souls gradually, preparing them step by step to receive the full understanding of the mystery.

    The incarnate Word had to accomplish the work of redemption through a meritorious life: by living in direct contact and interaction with humanity, experiencing persecution, suffering, and obedience (Luke 24:26; Heb. 2:10; Phil. 2:7–11; Matt. 20:28). If, however, He had presented Himself to His contemporaries in the overwhelming radiance of His deity, the possibility of such a truly human, meritorious life would have ceased to exist. This would have disrupted the entire order of salvation history (œconomia salutis). Furthermore, there would have been no room left for faith in the hearts of people. If Jesus Christ had revealed Himself with complete clarity and tangible evidence as God through words and deeds, it would have inaugurated an eschatological state—the kind of reality He associated with His second coming. The first time, however, He did not come to receive homage and rule but to serve. Thus, His reserved self-revelation was a sign of His superhuman wisdom and, at the same time, evidence that this confession of His deity was not a later human invention. If humans had fabricated it, they would have impatiently and indiscreetly thrust Christ’s deity to the forefront.

    What apologetics establishes about the character of Jesus Christ places beyond doubt what He Himself affirmed: "Even if I bear witness concerning Myself, My testimony is true" (John 8:14). Therefore, the conclusion is inescapable: Jesus Christ is God.

  • Duran
    Duran

    context - the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning

    [12 Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.” 13 So the Pharisees said to him: “You bear witness about yourself; your witness is not true.14 In answer Jesus said to them: “Even if I do bear witness about myself, my witness is true, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I do not judge any man at all. 16 And yet even if I do judge, my judgment is truthful, because I am not alone, but the Father who sent me is with me. 17 Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ 18 I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.”]


  • joey jojo
    joey jojo
    aqwsed12345
    The wisdom that "orders all things gently" did not permit the great mystery to blaze forth fully at once. The "sun" of this truth, at the moment of its rising, was not allowed to reach its zenith immediately, dazzling and intimidating all with its brightness. Instead, its early rays, filtering through the clouds of restraint, needed to accustom souls gradually, preparing them step by step to receive the full understanding of the mystery.

    These are essentially the same words that the GB uses when they make stuff up too.

  • moomanchu
    moomanchu
    • Duran7 hours ago

      LOL! I am not nor was ever a JW.

      OK, just curious why are you here arguing about a stupid JW idiosyncrasy?

      What's the connection for you? Are you an unbaptized JW, spouse is a JW, relative is a JW, thinking of becoming a JW?

      It's like me being on a ex-Mormon site arguing with ex-Mormons about why I thought polygamy was acceptable 150 years ago.

      Troll

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