John 1:1 - A "Sacred Secret" Revealed

by AGuest 145 Replies latest watchtower bible

DJ

That has been revealed to me by my Father. Do you question His counsel?
noko

Who is your Father?
DJ

Who do you say He is?
UnDisfellowshipped

AGuest said:
May you all have peace! Please forgive my delay in responding... I have been away and there was no access to a computer. My apologies!
No problem. I understand completely.
AGuest said:
I have had a chance now to read all that has been posted on the subject... and, of course, it has turned into a "some are saying that the resurrection has already occurred," type of situation. Unfortunately, I cannot let myself be led by that, but only by the spirit of my Father, holy spirit, that resides in me through Christ. With that said, I am going to say a few things here... as I am directed to... and then I will leave the subject (as I once stated before)... as there is no benefit in continuing after this point. Here is what I KNOW... and the means by which I KNOW it is as received from my Lord himself, the One whom "comes in the name of JAH," JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armie (VEH):
1. The Bible... is not the Word of God. The SON is... so that it is by HIS mouth... and not by words written on stone tablets... that truth is known. For it is HIS mouth that utters truth itself... in low tones. For he IS the Truth.
You are correct on one point -- The Son is The Word of God:
John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14: And the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
1 John 1:1-3: That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have gazed upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of Life -- and the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and we declare to you the Eternal Life which was with the Father and was manifested to us -- that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, in order that you also may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
1 John 5:7: For there are Three that bear witness in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these Three are One.
Revelation 19:11-13: And I saw Heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having Names written, and a Name written that no one knows except Himself. And He is clothed in a robe having been dipped in Blood, and His Name is called The Word of God.
You are incorrect on the other point -- The Bible is the Word of God, according to our Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles:
Luke 8:11-13: "Now this is the parable: The seed is the Word of God. And those beside the road are they that hear; then the Devil comes and takes away the Word from their hearts, lest they believe and be saved. But those on the rock are they that, whenever they hear, receive the Word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of testing fall away.
Now, can you answer a question for me? What is "the Word of God" that Jesus talked about in Luke 8:11-13?
Matthew 4:4: But He [Jesus] answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.' "
What are the "Words that proceed out of God's mouth" that Jesus said man should live by?
2 Peter 3:14-17: Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot or blemish; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation -- just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you, as also in all his Letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on guard, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being carried away by the error of the wicked;
The Apostle Peter said that the Apostle Paul's Writings and Letters were part of the Holy Scriptures, and that if you corrupted Paul's Letters, you would be destroyed, just like with the other Holy Scriptures. AGuest, do you agree with 2 Peter 3:14-17? Do you believe what it says?
Ephesians 1:12-13: so that we should be to the praise of His glory, we who first trusted in Christ; in whom also you, when you heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
What is the "Word of Truth" in Ephesians 1:12-13?
2 Timothy 2:15: Be diligent to show yourself approved unto God, a worker unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
What is the "Word of Truth" in 2 Timothy 2:15?
2 Timothy 3:13-17: But evil men and impostors shall advance worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be proficient, having been thoroughly equipped for every good work.
AGuest, do you agree with 2 Timothy 3:13-17 or not? We are supposed to get our doctrines from the Scriptures. The Holy Scriptures are able to make us wise for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
Acts 4:31: And when they had prayed, the place where they were gathered was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the Word of God with boldness.
What is the "Word of God" in Acts 4:31?
Acts 13:7: who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul, and sought to hear the Word of God.
What is the "Word of God" in Acts 13:7?
Acts 13:44-46: On the coming Sabbath, almost all the city was assembled to hear the Word of God. And the Jews, seeing the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and spoke against the things being said by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. But Paul and Barnabas, speaking boldly said, "It was necessary for the Word of God to be spoken to you first; but since you thrust it away, and judge yourselves not worthy of eternal life; behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
What is the "Word of God" in Acts 13:44-46?
Acts 18:11: And he settled there a year and six months, teaching the Word of God among them.
What is the "Word of God" in Acts 18:11?
2 Corinthians 2:17: For we are not as the rest, corrupting the Word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.
What is the "Word of God" in 2 Corinthians 2:17?
2 Corinthians 4:1-4: Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not despair, but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor falsifying the Word of God, but by the disclosure of the truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience before God. But even if our Gospel is hidden, it is hidden among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the Image of God, should not shine on them.
What is the "Word of God" in 2 Corinthians 4:1-4?
Ephesians 6:17-19: And take the helmet of salvation, and the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God; through every prayer and petition, praying in every season in the Spirit, being watchful to this same thing with all perseverance and petition concerning all the saints -- and for me, that utterance may be given unto me, in the opening of my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the Gospel,
What is the "Word of God" and what is the "Sword of the Spirit" in Ephesians 6:17-19?
1 Thessalonians 2:13: Because of this we also give thanks to God unceasingly, so that when you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you received not the word of men, but just as it truly is, the Word of God, which also is at work in you who believe.
What is the "Word of God" in 1 Thessalonians 2:13?
1 Timothy 4:5-6: for it is sanctified through the Word of God and prayer. Instructing the brothers in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, being nourished by the Words of faith and of the Good Doctrine which you have carefully followed.
In 1 Timothy 4:5-6, what is the "Word of God", and what are the "Words of faith", and what is the "Good Doctrine"?
Luke 24:26-27: Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. (Verses 44-47:) Then He said to them, "These are the Words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in His Name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
So, AGuest, are you saying that the Scriptures, which Jesus explained to the Apostles, were NOT the Word of God?
Hebrews 13:7-9: Remember your leaders, who spoke the Word of God to you, of whom considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried away with various and strange doctrines. For it is good for the heart to be established by grace, not by foods, by which those having walked were not profited.
What is the "Word of God" in Hebrews 13:7-9?
Revelation 6:9: And when He opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.
What is the "Word of God" in Revelation 6:9?
Acts 1:16-17: Men, brothers; it was necessary for this Scripture to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; for he was numbered with us and obtained a portion in this ministry."
Those Verses say that the Scriptures were spoken by the Holy Spirit, and yet, you claim that the Scriptures are NOT the Word of God?
Acts 17:2: And according to Paul's custom, he went in to them, and for three Sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Notice? Paul reasoned with people using the Scriptures. And the Scriptures are not the Word of God???
Acts 17:11: And these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, who received the Word with all readiness, each day examining the Scriptures to see whether these things might be so.
What is the "Word" in Acts 17:11? Why were the Beroeans called "noble-minded" for examining the Scriptures to make sure what is true?
2 Peter 1:20-21: knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture comes about from one's own interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke, being brought along by the Holy Spirit.
AGuest, do you agree with 2 Peter 1:20-21?
AGuest said:
2. If you TRULY want to know what is true... NOT what this man says... or that man says... or this translations means... or that translation suggests... or what such and so word in this language means... or such and so word in that language suggests... then there is only ONE "Way"... ONE... who will lead you... by means of HIS spirit... into ALL truth.
John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 17:17: Sanctify them by Your Truth; Your Word is Truth.
Jesus Christ is The Truth. The Holy Scriptures, The Word of God, are the Truth as well.
AGuest said:
3. We can speculate, commiserate, ruminate and transliterate all day long. We will not be the first... nor the last. However, IF you truly want to know what the "scriptures" SAY... what they MEAN... then it is to the One... ABOUT WHOM THEY ARE WRITTEN... that you should go. It is HIM that you should KEEP ASKING.
I agree. But you know what? God would not, and CANNOT contradict Himself. So that means The Father and Jesus would NEVER contradict what is written in their inspired Word, the Holy Scriptures.
AGuest said:
I understand the points made here: of course, they sound as if they make sense. Does not almost ALL religious doctrine, if the argument is made well enough? How, then, are we to KNOW? There is only ONE WAY... for God only SPEAKS to us... by one means: His Son.
I agree. God the Father actually speaks to us by His Son and His Spirit.
AGuest said:
Now... I have inquired of that Son regarding all that has been "spoken" here, long before now. No, that is not true, so I must take it back. I did NOT ask. What HAPPENED was... I was TOLD... that IF I obeyed his voice... and spoke whatever it was that he gave me to speak... to whomever it was that he sent me to speak it... I, in turn, would be shown and told things, that I would hear sacred secrets, that I would KNOW THE TRUTH. Not as earthling man has told it to me.... but as he, THE TRUTH... would himself tell me. Why? Because I exercised faith and BELIEVED... when he FIRST started speaking to me. I did NOT doubt. And from that time on... I have exercised faith in ALL that he has spoken to me.
I do not get my understanding from a book, or books, including the Bible. But my Lord did tell me this, from the start: "ALL things that I tell you... are written. But not all things that are WRITTEN is what I will tell you." What did this mean? I asked, and was told that DUE TO LACK OF FAITH... earthling man will follow and worship... what he can SEE. However, FAITH... is the assured expectation of the things hoped for... though NOT seen. Since, then, earthling man always needs to SEE it... IN WRITING... the Adversary uses such things to MISLEAD...as it is WRITTEN... IF POSSIBLE... EVEN THE CHOSEN ONES.
And we fall right into it: we put our trust in "earthling man"... in his versions, his translations, his transliterations, his interpretations... etc., etc., etc.,... rather than doing what we were TOLD to do... repeatedly... even in the very book that many put their faith... and that is: LISTEN TO THE SON! For it is HIS voice... that the sheep... must KNOW.
There is a problem with your statements.
Jesus Christ would never, ever contradict what He has spoken in the New Testament.
Galatians 1:6-9: I marvel that you are turning so quickly from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; except there are certain people who trouble you and wish to pervert the Gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from Heaven, should preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, and I say again just now, if anyone preaches a gospel to you other than what you received, let him be accursed.
That Scripture in Galatians 1:6-9 is amazing!
It reveals that, even if an angel from Heaven, or the Apostles, were to tell you something that contradicts the Gospel which is found in the New Testament, then they shall be ACCURSED (condemned to Hell).
Keep those Verses in mind....
AGuest said:
So, with that said, I now say to you that I stand by what I have shared with you, just as I have heard it from my Lord, the Son of God:
1. My Father is one.
I agree.
AGuest said:
2. My Lord is a God... just as we, too, will one day be Gods. It does not matter: big "G"... little "g"... it does not matter.
Blasphemy. Absolute blasphemy. I'm sorry for using such harsh words, but according to the Bible, you have just spoken blasphemy against God.
First of all, you are teaching the original lie that Satan told Eve, which the Mormons and Freemasons also teach, and which Charles Taze Russell once taught: That all Christians will one day become "Gods".
Notice Satan's original lie to Eve:
Genesis 3:1-5: Now the serpent was more subtle than any animal of the field which Yahweh God had made. He said to the woman, "Yes, has God said, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'" The woman said to the serpent, "Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat, but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" The serpent said to the woman, "You won't surely die, for God knows that in the day you eat it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Notice also the Apostle Paul's statements:
1 Corinthians 8:4-6: Therefore concerning the eating of the things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For even if they are being called "gods" whether in Heaven or on earth (just as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is One God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and One Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Galatians 4:8: But at one time indeed, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature were not gods.
There is Only One God by Nature. Period. End of story. All other "gods" are not truly gods at all. They may be relatively "mighty", but that's all.
AGuest, can you show me one Verse in the entire Bible that says Christians will become Gods?
Also, you stated another blasphemy, this time a blasphemy against The Lord Himself, you claimed that the Lord Jesus is "a God" but not The God.
I think you said before that you believe that the Book of Revelation was inspired by God, correct?
Revelation 22:12-13: "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to each one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation teaches that Jesus is The Alpha and The Omega, The First and The Last, and The Beginning and The End, which are the exact same Titles Revelation gives to The Father at Revelation 21:6.
Revelation Chapter 5 teaches that Jesus should receive EQUAL honor, praise, glory, and worship with The Father.
AGuest, do you believe that? Do you give equal praise, honor, glory, and worship to The Father and The Son?
AGuest said:
3. My Father created my Lord... OUT OF HIS LOVE. Thus, he is the SON... "of His love," created in the womb of my mother, Jerusalem Above... the spirit realm. My Lord... is the son created according to a PROMISE... versus Adam, who was created "by means of the flesh."
Another Non-Scriptural teaching.
Your statement actually contradicts the Scriptures:
John 1:3: All things came to be through Him, and without Him nothing came to be which has come to be.
According to John 1:3, if Jesus was created, then Jesus created Himself! Does that make any sense?
Ephesians 3:9: and to enlighten all as to what is the administration of the mystery, which had been hidden from the ages in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ;
According to Ephesians 3:9, if Jesus was created, then God created Jesus through Jesus! Does that make any sense?
Colossians 1:16-17: because by Him all things were created, those in the Heavens and those on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things are held together.
According to Colossians 1:16-17, if Jesus was created, then Jesus existed before Jesus was created! Does that make any sense?
AGuest said:
4. By means of my Lord... my FATHER... created everything else. For it was my Lord... the One who is LIFE... that my Father used to "beget" life. Before him, I was DEAD. By MEANS of him... I have been brought TO LIFE.
5. My Lord is the Light that came into existence "in the womb"... between the Darkness and whom my Father put a division. I, too, have become that Light... so that I must let it shine... before ALL men.
There are some major problems with those statements:
There is no way using the Scriptures that you can show that Jesus was ever created. It is impossible using the Scriptures, because the Scriptures do not teach that Jesus was ever created.
Who or what is the "Darkness"??? The Bible says the Darkness was created at the same time the Light was.
AGuest said:
There is SO much more to say... but as said before me, "hard to be explained." Why? Because... YOU HAVE BECOME DULL... IN YOUR HEARING. You do not HEAR... thus, you do not understand, but still "search the scriptures."
So be it. Search the scriptures... but you will not find him. For he does not exist in pages, on stone tablets, on paper... or in BOOKS. He is ALIVE... and EXISTS... IN YOU... IF... you HEAR HIM KNOCKING... and OPEN TO HIM.
Isn't it amazing? You claim you believe in the Lord, and yet you belittle His own Word, the Holy Scriptures! The Scriptures are the Word of Christ:
Colossians 3:16: Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and Hymns and Spiritual Songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Whoever is speaking things to you or whoever's "voice" you are hearing, is NOT The Lord Jesus [Yahshua] the Messiah's voice. The Bible proves this:
Hebrews 13:8-9: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried away with various and strange doctrines. For it is good for the heart to be established by grace, not by foods, by which those having walked were not profited.
Galatians 1:6-9: I marvel that you are turning so quickly from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; except there are certain people who trouble you and wish to pervert the Gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from Heaven, should preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, and I say again just now, if anyone preaches a gospel to you other than what you received, let him be accursed.
AGuest said:
May you hear... and get the sense of it. For if you do, perhaps you will also hear his invitation, through the Spirit and Bride... which invitation is to:
"COME!"
I ask you... to WHOM will you come... if you DO NOT HEAR?
Believe what you will. And follow who you will. As for ME... I will follow the Lamb... wherever HE goes... wherever HIS voice... leads me. For he is the Fine Shepherd, and for ME... there is no other.
Again, I bid you all the greatest of peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
How can you follow The Lamb, and yet reject His Word?
I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ will open your eyes, and that the Truth will set you free.
I leave you one last set of Scriptures, the very Words of Christ Himself:
Revelation 3:7-11: "And to the angel of the Church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says the Holy One, the True One, " He who has the key of David, He that opens and no man shuts, except He that opens, and no man shall open." "I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, and no man can shut it; because you have a little strength and have kept My Word, and you have not denied My Name. Behold, I will give those of the synagogue of Satan, those who say they are Jews and are not, but they are lying -- behold, I will compel them to come and worship before your feet, and they shall know that I have loved you. Because you have kept My Command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those that dwell upon the earth. I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no man may take your crown.
UnDisfellowshipped

Noko said:
Man does not give birth to anything except through the women or through the womb. God gives birth "in the womb of the Woman" which is Jesus.
Well, that's interesting, because AGuest claims that Jesus was "born" inside the womb of the Woman, so if Jesus is the womb of the Woman, then how was Jesus born inside of Himself?
Noko said:
Eve came after Adam but of the same flesh in the garden of Eden or you can say "In the Ark" where all life began. Jehovah and Jesus "IN THE SPIRIT REALM..." the Most Holy place where the high priest (Jesus Christ) can enter stems all creation perfectly exemplified by the example God gives us in the Garden of Eden. Eve was an image of Adam as Jesus is an image of God. Remember this is only an image that reveals the truth.
Correction: Jesus does not just reveal the truth, Jesus IS THE TRUTH!
John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
UnDisfellowshipped

DJ,
Hi, how are you doing?
I enjoy your comments DJ.
Your illustration of the egg was good.
Here is another illustration I have heard:
Think about Water.
Water can be Vapor, but it is still Water. Water can be Ice, but it is still Water. Water can be Liquid, but it is still Water.
logical

Hi UnDisfellowshipped
Sorry to but in... but to me it seems you are entirely missing the point.
Where does it mention in those verses you quoted about the word of God being WRITTEN DOWN on books, tablets, paper etc? The very first one you quote says it is written on the hearts of man.
True scripture is written down scripture is here, but can you honestly say what your reading in the bible is 100% accurate scripture, unaltered by man? I am sure you are aware of the WT's attempts to distort scripture, and guess what, they are not the first to do this, as one of your verses you quotes points out.
I am sure you are aware of the majority of the NT isnt even real scripture..... its a collection of letters and opinions and historical accounts which are not even entirely accurate, hence the contradictions.... there are also books in the OT that arent scripture.
The scriptures merely poiinted out the way to salvation, they bore witness to Christ... John 5:39-40. Surely it is more important to listen to the actual Word than read that which bears witness to him. Actual salvation lies with Christ, not in a book.
Before you can fully understand what AGuest is saying, you need to let go of your bible worship, and realise that its just a book and not that important in the long run.
UnDisfellowshipped

Logical said:
Hi UnDisfellowshipped

Hi Logical.
Logical said:
Sorry to but in... but to me it seems you are entirely missing the point.
Where does it mention in those verses you quoted about the word of God being WRITTEN DOWN on books, tablets, paper etc? The very first one you quote says it is written on the hearts of man.
2 Timothy 3:13-17: But evil men and impostors shall advance worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be proficient, having been thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:15: Be diligent to show yourself approved unto God, a worker unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Logical, do you agree with 2 Timothy 3:13-17 or not? It says that all Scripture is inspired by God. It says we are supposed to get our doctrines and teachings from the Scriptures. It says that the Holy Scriptures are able to make us wise for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:14-17: Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot or blemish; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation -- just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you, as also in all his Letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on guard, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being carried away by the error of the wicked; The Apostle Peter said that the Apostle Paul's Writings and Letters were part of the Holy Scriptures, and that if you corrupted Paul's Letters, you would be destroyed, just like with the other Holy Scriptures. Logical, do you agree with 2 Peter 3:14-17? Do you believe what it says?
Logical said:
True scripture is written down scripture is here, but can you honestly say what your reading in the bible is 100% accurate scripture, unaltered by man? I am sure you are aware of the WT's attempts to distort scripture, and guess what, they are not the first to do this, as one of your verses you quotes points out.
I can honestly say that God has enough power to make sure that His Word is preserved, or do you not believe the Words of our Lord?
Matthew 5:18: For assuredly I say to you, until Heaven and earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle shall by no means pass away from the Law until all things are fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall by no means pass away.
Logical said:
I am sure you are aware of the majority of the NT isnt even real scripture..... its a collection of letters and opinions and historical accounts which are not even entirely accurate, hence the contradictions.... there are also books in the OT that arent scripture.
The Apostle Peter, who walked and talked with The Lord said that all of Paul's Letters were Holy Scriptures:
2 Peter 3:14-17: Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot or blemish; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation -- just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you, as also in all his Letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on guard, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being carried away by the error of the wicked;
You have basically called Peter a liar.
Not only that, you also have said that the New Testament has contradictions and sometimes is not accurate.
I challenge you to show me where in the New Testament, is something stated that is not accurate, and please also show me a contradiction in the New Testament.
Logical said:
The scriptures merely poiinted out the way to salvation, they bore witness to Christ... John 5:39-40. Surely it is more important to listen to the actual Word than read that which bears witness to him. Actual salvation lies with Christ, not in a book.
Salvation comes from Jesus, and Jesus alone.
Everyone should go to Jesus for salvation, and Jesus alone.
But how do you think Jesus likes it when people say He does NOT even have the power to preserve an accurate copy of His Holy Word throughout the centuries? How do you think He feels when people claim His Holy, Perfect, Inspired, Infallible Word is full of inaccuracies and contradictions?
Logical said:

Before you can fully understand what AGuest is saying, you need to let go of your bible worship, and realise that its just a book and not that important in the long run.
So now I am accused of Bible worship?
Let me just emphasize one of your statements:
realise that its just a book and not that important in the long run.

Now, let's see what Jesus Himself said about this "just a book":
Matthew 5:18: For assuredly I say to you, until Heaven and earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle shall by no means pass away from the Law until all things are fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall by no means pass away. Jesus said this Book is more important than HEAVEN AND EARTH! How do you think Jesus feels when people say that His Word and His Commandments are "not that important in the long run". That is being hugely, hugely disrespectful towards our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
UnDisfellowshipped

I thought I would add this very important message here.
Have You Been Born Again? If you were to die tonight are you 100% sure that you are going to Heaven?
Please read below to find out if you are Saved or not:
An important fact to consider is that the thief on the Cross next to Jesus was Saved without doing ANY of the following things:
1. Being Baptized in Water
2. Partaking of the Lord's Supper
3. Going to Church
4. Participating in any Religious Ceremonies
5. Doing any "Good Works"
6. Going Door-To-Door Preaching.
John 3:16: For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:3: Jesus... said... "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless someone is Born Again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
Because of Adam's original sin (breaking God's Commandment and eating the forbidden fruit)....
You are a sinner. I am a sinner. Everyone is a sinner.
We all sin many, many times each day, quite often without even knowing it.
Unfortunately, I sin a lot.
Just what is sin?
As one example, sin is any time that you do anything that is not lawful under the 10 Commandments.
That includes even lusting after a woman (or man) in your heart, and it also includes thinking bad or mean thoughts against someone else.
Sin also includes all of the times when you should have done something, but you did not.
According to God's absolute perfect Justice, the punishment for just one sin is DEATH and ETERNAL SEPARATION FROM GOD.
So, each and every human being on Earth is under a Death Sentence from God Himself.
This doesn't sound like "good news", does it?
So, are we all doomed?
NO!
Now, here comes the GOOD NEWS!
Jesus Christ, God Almighty Himself, who created all of us, willingly decided to come to Earth and Sacrifice His own Life to make a "Once-For-All-Time" Atonement to God the Father!
When Jesus Christ died a humiliating, painful death on the Cross, God the Father transferred ALL of the sins of every human who has ever existed and ever will exist (who puts their faith in Jesus) onto Jesus Christ.
Jesus had ALL of your sins placed on Him (even the sins that you have not yet committed), and Jesus willingly received your punishment of death that you deserved!
If YOU were the ONLY person on Earth that needed to be saved, Jesus loves YOU so much, that He would have come to Earth to die for YOU ALONE!
Then, after 3 days, Jesus rose from the dead and went to Heaven to be with the Father!
Now, if someone who puts their faith in Jesus Christ sins, God the Father immediately applies the Blood of Christ to your sin and blots that sin out (if you are repentant) and declares you righteous, because 2,000 years ago, that sin was already paid for by Jesus Christ on the Cross!
Does that mean that all people are saved?
NO!
The Bible makes it clear that ONLY those who believe in and put all their trust in Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord, and Son of God, and His Sacrifice, will be saved!
Who is Good?
Romans 3:10: according as it has been written, "There is not a righteous one, not even one!"
Who has Sinned?
Romans 3:23: for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God
Where did Sin came from?
Romans 5:12: Because of this, even as sin entered the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, so also death passed to all men, inasmuch as all sinned.
God's Punishment for Sin
Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death...
Who Paid The Price and Who Suffered the Punishment instead of us?
Romans 5:8: but God commends His love to us in this, that we being yet sinners, Christ died for us.
The Only Way Out of Receiving the Punishment of Death and Eternal Separation from God:
Romans 10:9-10: Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.
Romans 10:13: For everyone, "whoever may call on the Name of the Lord will be saved."
I truly hope that you will take God at His Word and claim His promise for your Salvation -- If you truly, sincerely, absolutely believe in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, Pray to God and Repent of your sins, ask God for forgiveness, and tell Jesus Christ that you believe in Him and His Sacrifice, and ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart and to be the Lord of your life!
I highly recommend that you read the Gospel of John.
DJ

2 Peter 3:14-17: Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot or blemish; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation -- just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you, as also in all his Letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on guard, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being carried away by the error of the wicked; The Apostle Peter said that the Apostle Paul's Writings and Letters were part of the Holy Scriptures, and that if you corrupted Paul's Letters, you would be destroyed, just like with the other Holy Scriptures. Logical, do you agree with 2 Peter 3:14-17? Do you believe what it says? Undis.....excellent point that I have never considered. Thanks. I believe in reading the bible and talking to God in prayer to understand what is meant in the bible for only by the grace of His spirit do we understand. If one is led to believe something that contradicts the written word, then prayer is needed to sort ot out. If one doesn't understand that by the WORD, the heavens and earth were made then they are misled. We are to test all inspired utterances and I think many make the mistake of not heeding that. Some like to reject the concept that the word is God because they have not yet been given the understanding yet and should continue to prayerfully seek and not discount the bible as the written word. I suppose that the real reason for discounting the bible is lack of understanding of what is written. Many who discount the bible see contradictions in it when there are not but because of misinformation they stray from truth. Take care my brother, dj

John 1:1 - A "Sacred Secret" Revealed

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