Jesus was gay - says academic

by ISP 172 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Justin Martyr appealed to a document apparenty extant in his day called the "Acts of Pontius Pilate" as a historical reference for the fact of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Pontius Pilate.

    The First Apology of Justin

    http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-46.htm#P3593_620967

    Chapter XXXV.-Other Fulfilled Prophecies.

    And the expression, "They pierced my hands and my feet," was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were fixed in His hands and feet. And after He was crucified they cast lots upon His vesture, and they that crucified Him parted it among them. And that these things did happen, you can ascertain from the Acts of Pontius Pilate. 71

    71 aktwn . These Acts of Pontius Pilate, or regular accounts of his procedure sent by Pilate to the Emporer Tiberius, are supposed to have been destroyed at an early period, possibly in consequence of the unanswerable appeals which the Christians constantly made to them. There exists a forgery in imitation of these Acts. See Trollope.

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    ISP said: Virtually all scholars have Acts written in the second century.

    "Scholars are divided on the date of the writing of Luke-Acts, hypothesizing anywhere from after A.D. 70 to about A.D. 90" The Bible Through the Ages 1996 p. 170; Bruce Metzger overall consultant In addition the book of Acts was quoted by Clement of Rome (A.D. 95) and Ignatius (A.D. 70-110) two early fathers.

    The idea that Pilate killed Jesus is doubted by many.

    It shouldn't be since there is plenty of evidence from a wide variety of sources for it, inculding: Matthew, Peter/Mark, John, Paul, Church historian Luke, Jewish historian Josephus, Roman historian Tacitus. also see the above reference from Justin Martyr (147AD).

    Why does that terrible deed, the trial, the aftermath not appear in Pauls letters? The reference in Timothy is regarded as an interpolation.

    Paul discusses Pilate in Acts chapter 13 as well as in 1 Timothy. The reference in 1 Timothy 6:13. I believe is found in P66 the oldest extant manuscript containing 1Timothy. I am still looking, but have thus far found no evidence of variants in manuscripts of 1 Timothy 6:13.

    Most regard the pastoral letters to be written in the second century or at least after Pauls death.

    It was quoted by Ignatius (A.D. 70-110) as well as was accepted by Irenaeus.

  • ISP
    ISP

    Regarding Acts

    Stevan Davies writes (Jesus the Healer, p. 174): "Luke wrote at least sixty years after Pentecost and perhaps closer to a century after that event. Scholarship on the subject presently vacillates between a late first century and an early to mid-second century date for Luke's writings."

    Regarding Pilate, Robert Price writes about this in Deconstructing Jesus, p. 249:

    Jesus' connection with the Roman governor Pilate on one end of his biography need be no more historical than his connection with the Roman governor Quirinius on the other. Even greater doubt is thrown on the matter by the parallel tradition, still extant but just barely, that Jesus was executed under Herod Antipas! The Gospel of Peter has Herod consult with Pilate but see to the execution himself. And, as Alfred Loisy noted long ago, Luke seems to have had access to a version of the Passion in which it was Herod who had Jesus killed, not Pilate. [The Origins of the New Testament, p. 192] This becomes evident when one examines the cumbersome and improbable sequence involving Jesus being tried before Pilate, then Herod Antipas, then Pilate again. No one has ever come up with a plausible reason for Pilate remanding Jesus to Antipas, as Luke has him do. Once Jesus gets to Herod's court, it is Herod's troops who mock him, not Pilate's as in the other gospels, implying that Luke was trying to harmonize the Markan Pilate-Passion with another set in Herod's court and had to choose between mockings. The most flagrant mark of indelicate editing is Herod's acquittal of Jesus--then sending him back to Pilate! It is clear Luke must have had one Passion story in front of him, Mark's, in which Pilate ordered Jesus' execution, and another, like that in the Gospel of Peter, in which it was Herod Antipas who condemned him. To use both, he had to change Herod's verdict from guilty to innocent (otherwise, as in the Gospel of Peter, he must have Herod send him to the cross). But instead of having Herod let Jesus go in peace, as an acquittal surely would demand, he has Herod send Jesus back to Pilate--for what? And if Pilate awaited Herod's verdict, why did he not let him go, too, since Herod had acquitted Jesus? Luke has too many cooks in the kitchen, and the stew is spoiled. But the key question is, if Jesus was known to have been crucified quite recently in dramatic public circumstances, at the behest either of Pilate or of Herod, how on earth could uncertainty over who killed him ever have arisen? If either Herod or Pilate had recently executed him, how could any belief about the involvement of the other have come about? But, on the other hand, if both were merely educated guesses as to who killed Jesus, we can easily see how the confusion arose.

    Norman Perrin summarises four reasons that have lead critical scholarship to regard the pastorals as inauthentic (The New Testament: An Introduction, pp. 264-5):

    Vocabulary.

    While statistics are not always as meaningful as they may seem, of 848 words (excluding proper names) found in the Pastorals, 306 are not in the remainder of the Pauline corpus, even including the deutero-Pauline 2 Thessalonians, Colossians, and Ephesians. Of these 306 words, 175 do not occur elsewhere in the New Testament, while 211 are part of the general vocabulary of Christian writers of the second century. Indeed, the vocabulary of the Pastorals is closer to that of popular Hellenistic philosophy than it is to the vocabulary of Paul or the deutero-Pauline letters. Furthermore, the Pastorals use Pauline words ina non-Pauline sense: dikaios in Paul means "righteous" and here means "upright"; pistis, "faith," has become "the body of Christian faith"; and so on. Literary style. Paul writes a characteristically dynamic Greek, with dramatic arguments, emotional outbursts, and the introduction of real or imaginary opponents and partners in dialogue. The Pastorals are in a quiet meditative style, far more characteristic of Hebrews or 1 Peter, or even of literary Hellenistic Greek in general, than of the Corinthian correspondence or of Romans, to say nothing of Galatians. The situation of the apostle implied in the letters. Paul's situation as envisaged in the Pastorals can in no way be fitted into any reconstruction of Paul's life and work as we know it from the other letters or can deduce it from the Acts of the Apostles. If Paul wrote these letters, then he must have been released from his first Roman imprisonment and have traveled in the West. But such meager tradition as we have seems to be more a deduction of what must have happened from his plans as detailed in Romans than a reflection of known historical reality.

    The letters as reflecting the characteristics of emergent Catholocism.

    The arguments presented above are forceful, but a last consideration is overwhelming, namely that, together with 2 Peter, the Pastorals are of all the texts in the New Testament the most distinctive representatives of the emphases of emergent Catholocism. The apostle Paul could no more have written the Pastorals than the apostle Peter could have written 2 Peter.
  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Dating of Acts: The two sources below seem to be quite contradictory: "Scholars are divided on the date of the writing of Luke-Acts, hypothesizing anywhere from after A.D. 70 to about A.D. 90" The Bible Through the Ages 1996 p. 170; Bruce Metzger overall consultant Stevan Davies "Luke wrote at least sixty years after Pentecost and perhaps closer to a century after that event. Scholarship on the subject presently vacillates between a late first century and an early to mid-second century date for Luke's writings." Please list the background for Mr. Davies. Bruce Metzger is extremely prominent in textual critism. I may list his qualifications if necessary.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Isp,

    You wrote: "It is as if what Jesus said was not known to Paul!!!"

    That's certainly not true in every case. See 1 Cor. 11:23-26

  • DJ
    DJ

    That is one pretty Jesus. The bible teaches that He was not physically attractive in the least. I doubt that he had a fair complexion and lovely green eyes. He was from the middle east! He most likely had an olive complexion with dark curly hair and dark eyes. I also love the way the watchtower has his hair all blow dried and layer cut.....very realistic as he walked throught the cities with no home to lay his head. This forum has an interesting way of honoring Christ....schitzo, gay......what's next? Do you have no respect for anyone?

  • shamus
    shamus

    Hee Hee!

    It would take me 6 days to read everyone's post, and respond...

  • m0nk3y
    m0nk3y
    This forum has an interesting way of honoring Christ....schitzo, gay......what's next? Do you have no respect for anyone?

    Just one little point people who are gay would take offence to speculating someone is gay as having no respect. Being gay I have nothing but respect for my fellow man/woman and I feel I deserve the same.

    As far as Jesus being gay ?!?! What the eff does it matter ? He is a corpse even if he ever existed. Stop living in the land of the dead and come back to your REAL life

    When are people going to stop getting caught up on where other peoples heart and genitals go. Its over !!!

    monk3y

  • riz
    riz

    DJ-

    who says we're all here to honor christ?

  • DJ
    DJ

    uh.....ok I'll bite....

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