Suicide and JW'S

by obiwan 65 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  viktoria

  Dear Dede

  I´m new here but have read the sad story about your mom.I´m so very very sorry for both you and her.Your poor mom who couldent stand the pain anymore and you who must be so very strong .

  Being a mother myself I can only say:make her proud of you.I wish I could say something to make the pain go away for you, I can´t,I know,but please know that my heart is with you and I have you in my prayers.

  I´ve lost a dear friend in the same way because of the WT.He was the sweetest man you could ever meet and he was gay.That´s why he thought death was better for him.No help to his family,very few to his funeral(and that after all he had done for others) It´s so tragic.

  To me the WT is like a mother who eats her own children.

  (((((((((((dede )))))))))))))

  Viktoria
• 

  proplog2

  Once again this forum chooses the low road of ignorance. Such garbage.

  What do you know about suicide statistics? Do you actually know that the suicide rate among JW's is higher than the general population. You can't prove that because there would be no reliable source for such information. Why do Finnish people have such a high suicide rate? Why is it higher for men than women? Why is it the greatest cause of death of young people next to automobile accidents?

  Blaming suicide on religion or family or government or schools etc. is very irresponsible. Quite often families of suicide victims blame themselves.

  Quit the blame game. It accomplished nothing. What about the cases where people were going to commit suicide but didn't because of being a JW.

  People on this forum have developed a philosophy that it doesn't matter what you say as long as you can spin it to put JW's in the worst possilbe light. That is bigotry of the worst sort.

  No one who is lurking can take discussions like this seriously.
• 

  larrynbabies

  It was appropriate you used the word GARBAGE in your first scentence because that was the context of YOUR statement. You, in my opinion, are blind to the facts. Just as most Practicing Jehovas Witnesses are. Not to be rude, this is a forum for all opinions and this is mine.

  larrynbabies
• 

  cruzanheart

  No one who is lurking can take discussions like this seriously.

  Sorry, proplog, but I don't write my posts for lurkers. I don't give a damn what anyone thinks of what I write as long as I'm not being hurtful to others. So many of us on this forum, as evidenced by this thread, have experienced suicide up close and personal, and we have a lot of feelings about it. Suicide is a personal decision, but a person can most definitely be influenced by what others are saying about them, and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, or the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, as they now style themselves, has always been excellent at making a person aware of their faults and they are even better about making a person feel really really bad about what they're doing or not doing. If a person has low self-esteem to start with, that kind of "support" system can definitely send them into a suicidal spiral. And, of course, you're taught that if you leave the organization for whatever reason, Jehovah hates you and you're dead meat, so that will make a depressed one feel even more hopeless.

  Nina
• 

  proplog2

  Laryynbabies:

  I love confused incoherent rebuttals.

  You, in my opinion, are blind to the facts

  Do you see the self-contradiction in this statement?

  If I am "blind to the facts" then its not an opinion any more. If you have "facts" that I am blind to - give them. My assertion is that since you don't have "facts" you shouldn't be blaming JW's for people who kill themselves. That's kind of like a recent Watchtower claim that certain "fantasy games" Dungeons & Dragons, Everquest etc. have caused people to murder themselves. That's garbage too!!!

  What would I consider "facts"? Usually in a social science setting you give data ie. suicide rate per unit of population. Then you defend your population selection by explaining how it is representative of the whole.

  If you are comparing one group with another you also need to explain the significance of the difference if there is indeed a difference.

  This is like the claims that there are "actually" more cases of molestation among JW's than the population in general. That's garbage because there is no hard research on the subject.

  Too bad that you are upset. But you ought to learn the language of truth even if you've spent years in an organization you feel didn't teach you that language.
• 

  proplog2

  Nina:

  So your answer to my request for factual numbers is just more conjecture?

  How many suicides do you think JW's prevent? There are no facts for that either - only anecdotal evidence. In my 55 years of association with JW's I only knew of 4 suicides. Male 35 shot himself. Male 47 shot himself. Male early 30's gassed himself. Young girl 15 - hung herself. That's in a circuit of about 2000. That would translate into a suicide rate of 4 per 100,000 people per year. That is lower than the 19 per 100,000 per year for the USA.

  Now it may be that I didn't know of other suicides. None of these were in my congregation. The news just travels. So maybe I just heard 25 percent of the actual cases. That still wouldn't make the JW suicide rate any worse than the general population.

  So without factual data you cannot make valid claims about any causal relationship between JW's and suicide.

  Mourn for the victims of self-murder. Extend sympathy toward the families that have lost loved ones. But don't fabricate blame on organizations without facts.
• 

  LyinEyes

  Proplog............. I am taking these words you have used as a personal insult:

  Low road of ignorance, garbage, irresponsible, bigotry.........( ugly man , that is very ugly)

  First of all , I don't blame all of my mother's problems on the fact that she was a JW. I have said that many times in past post. But .............I WITNESSED with my own eyes and ears, her heart broken, over having hurt her God, Jehovah, and not one brother, the elders,,,,,,,,took a damn minute of their time to help this sister who was sick.......... SHE was physcially sick. They didnt call her in the hospital, they didnt send a card. Why didn't they give her spiritual comfort? THey waited until she started smoking then decided to do something about her then,,,,,,,,,,d/f her. Ok, I can see , she decided to smoke, but she was full of guilt over it and a whole plate of other things , having to do with my ELDER dad for so many years. So I CAN say that the religion the way of life the utter bullshit and hypocrisey in the religion, DID contribute to her misery. That how it was in our home, and I have seen the same thing in SO MANY other JW households,........... but since you were not there, living my life , seeing what I saw,,,,,,,,,, you are talking OUT OF YOUR DAMN ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  You are being ignorant , blind, and totally insensitive to the ones who lived the real shit of this kind of thing.

  And another thing, I don't need statistics of any kind to prove to me a thing.........I saw it all with my own eyes. I dont care what someone eles might say , YOU mostly, I just share MY story, MY experience with this, and if you don't believe it , I don't give a SHIT!

  Have you ever tried to comfort a person so broken down in spirit, wondering if they have committed an unforgivable sin and that Jehovah has turned his back on them? Have you whiped the tears away from your own Mother's face , trying in vain to comfort her, when she needed an absolution? Forgiveness? Understanding? I am mad at the religion part of it, because they (JW) told her she shouldnt put much stock in going to therapy.............hummmmm, I guess that is not the JW fault is it,,,,,their wonderful suggestion on relying on God and the brothers , left her up shitcreek without a paddle because,,,,, they ignored her cries for help. And well you know God didnt come down and comfort her either. She wasnt capable of comforting herself,.... and I tried, I blamed myself for so long you can't even imagine the "what if's " that went thru my mind?

  So until you walk this walk,,,,, which i hope to God you never do,,,,,,,,,, it would be wise of you to refrain from thinking you know it all with all of your data and statistics.
• 

  cruzanheart

  Mourn for the victims of self-murder. Extend sympathy toward the families that have lost loved ones. But don't fabricate blame on organizations without facts.

  Oh, my, I forgot to get NUMBERS! After all, according to you, a situation doesn't exist unless the beancounters can back it up with stats. Alas, I don't think any of the pollster organizations have taken the time to do a survey or study on Jehovah's Witnesses and suicide. All we can do on this forum is draw from our own personal experiences, and we have plenty. You are looking at this as an exercise in numbers and are not taking into account people's LIVES. If only ONE PERSON commits suicide because of something taught by Jehovah's Witnesses, then the teachings of the organization are WRONG.

  I agree with Dede in that I hope you never have to experience anyone you love committing suicide for any reason, but it is a very shattering experience. We are speaking about our experiences. You are speaking without experience.

  Nina
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  Big Tex

  "One death is a tragedy. Millions are a statistic." -- Joseph Stalin
• 

  Lady Lee

  What do you know about suicide statistics? Do you actually know that the suicide rate among JW's is higher than the general population. You can't prove that because there would be no reliable source for such information. Why do Finnish people have such a high suicide rate? Why is it higher for men than women? Why is it the greatest cause of death of young people next to automobile accidents?

  What relevance do statistics of other populations or other countries have to do with the issue of suicide among the JWs? We are here to discuss the issue that there have been many JWs who have committed suicide because of the treatemtn by this religion.

  My experience is 1 family member, 1 close friend and 1 young man I know of committed suide during the 22 years I was a JW

  Since I left 18 years ago I do not know of 1 person who committed suicide and that is something considering that I have worked with high risk populations for the last 18 of those years.

  Blaming suicide on religion or family or government or schools etc. is very irresponsible. Quite often families of suicide victims blame themselves.

  The fact that family and close friends blame themselves is irrelevant on what the cause was. Survivor guilt is a normal response when a loved one dies this way. It does not address real guilt or responsiblity

  Quit the blame game. It accomplished nothing. What about the cases where people were going to commit suicide but didn't because of being a JW.

  Thw WTS has its own PR department. And they would never tell the whole story. They would only tell stories of people who got a last minute call at their door that stopped them. They certainly would not be publishing stories or Brother X who committed suicide because we disfellowshipped him. We present the reality that JW suicide does happen and always in the most tragic of circumstances.

  People on this forum have developed a philosophy that it doesn't matter what you say as long as you can spin it to put JW's in the worst possilbe light. That is bigotry of the worst sort.

  Please NOTE where you are. This is a forum that allows us to express our experiences and grievances with the WTS something that was not permitted while we were JWs. It isn't a matter of painting the WTS black. it is a matter of speaking our truth our experience and sharing that with others and maybe getting a bit of support unlike when we were JWs.

  It isn't bigotry. It is honesty

  No one who is lurking can take discussions like this seriously.

  Unless of course they have been there and experienced similar situations.

  Lee