Here's a statistic for ya proplog,
99.9% of the posters on this thread think you are a richard cranium!
Suicide and JW'S
by obiwan 65 Replies latest jw experiences
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nowisee
dede,
first of all thank you for sharing the picture of your mom with us. i can only echo what so many others said -- she was absolutely beautiful, and yes, you look so much like her. i have read so many of your posts about her -- about your father -- and i feel as though i really know you and understand what you have been through. i am so glad that your friends here have been able to offer some comfort.
i have told bits and pieces of my story, but i can't reveal everything. it is complicated but it is absolutely true that the wts caused immeasurable distress and pain within my family. it was unnecessary and heartless. i also remember that many members of my congregation were unstable, i remember at least 2 suicide attempts, and many suffered depression.
and yes, i lost a family member to suicide also.
proplog, i am not so sure that this thread was meant to be "scientific". it is largely anecdotal. we are able to share here and draw solace from one another. the truth being told has been mistakenly interpreted as malicious bashing.
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proplog2
Here is my very first post to this forum two years ago:
There is a very subtle problem with being raised as a JW. From my earliest years I was told I would never die or grow old. This is more than enough to make up for NO SANTA NO EASTER BUNNY NO TOOTH FAIRY NO BIRTHDAYS ETC> Had it been true it would have been amazingly wonderful. But at the very core of my experience is a child who was lied to. A child whose parents have died. A child who is profoundly disappointed.
People who have come into the organization after childhood were raised on a much more realistic promise. At the core of their experience they learned to accept death as inevitable. True, I know intellectually that death awaits all but at my core is still the oldest neuro-chemical pathways in my brain that reminds me that all that I was promised is now a lie. I have learned to be aware of this tendency. I will never overcome that reflexive let-down but I can manage it by knowing it will be there to make me sad - until the day I die.
Those who have been raised in this organization need to be aware of this tendency. Especially, counselors and mental health practitioners need to know of this unique syndrome of those raised as JW's. I think it predisposes certain people to suicide.
I used to believe that. But I don't think it is proveable. It makes a "weak" case. It isn't external things that cause people to commit suicide. It's their irrational thinking that mediates such extreme behavior. If you say that external events "cause" suicide you are justifying it. You are opening the door to self-murder as a rational option if "things" - "external things" get hard enough. It could also make you think in a very self-threatening way that: "Things are so terrible. In fact they are terrible enough for me to kill myself ".
To avoid suicide it is better to realize that a person has to take responsibility for their own foolish behavior.
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little witch
Proplog, is it beyond you to realize that depression is an illness? Do you not know that stress, and ill will can bring on depression?
It is not ''foolish behavior''. Depression IS NOT A BEHAVIOR PROBLEM!
Ya know what else? Mean people suck ! Your comments on this thread are mean, nasty, and devised to take your anger out on an innocent woman, who is already hurting. And you know it! There is no excuse for your stupidity.
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LyinEyes
To avoid suicide it is better to realize that a person has to take responsibility for their own foolish behavior.
--Proplog2
That is sentence just blows my mind. Do you know anything about mental illness, depression,,,,???
It is a chemical imbalance...........a severely depressed person , not talking about other serious psyhiatric problems, I am talking major clinical depression............. A person that is that seriously ill CAN NOT do what you said in that sentence above. Their logic and their mind may tell them this is truth, but their emotions and pain tell them otherwise.
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying........ what is this foolish behavior in the above sentence are you talking about , and who are you talking about? Suicidal people? I just want to be clear on what you are talking about here.
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Lady Lee
It isn't external things that cause people to commit suicide. It's their irrational thinking that mediates such extreme behavior. If you say that external events "cause" suicide you are justifying it. You are opening the door to self-murder as a rational option if "things" - "external things" get hard enough. It could also make you think in a very self-threatening way that: "Things are so terrible. In fact they are terrible enough for me to kill myself ".
The problem I have with this idea is that although I can agree external events do not "cause" suicide they can certainly push a person in that direction.
For example: Let's take a young woman who already suffers from severe depression. She has gone to the elders for help and is told ""Study more. Pray more. Go to meetings and get out in the door-to-door work." She does this but the depression gets worse. It is a struggle for her to get up each day because of this depression. And the "suggestion" of the elders does not help. Now her guilt about not doing enough increases. Her sense of failure increases as does her guilt. She is not doing enough. When she is able to get to meetings she hears talks that warn of the dangers of the world and psychology. She reads in the magazines how people have listened to the psychologists of the world and been led astray. And she hears stories of those who commit themselves to the preaching work and are fine. All these things only serve to increse her feelings of failure, She can't even do that right.
So looking to the world for assistance is discouraged and she will be considered weak. Not doing enough at meetings, study and pray isn't working so that must be her fault because if she was doing it right then she would be getting better. The WTS closes the door to outside help. What they offer instead is "Pray more" and that doesn't help. In desperation, severly depressed and believing there is no way out of the darkenss they live in they commit suicide.
This "example" is fairly typical of most JW sicide victims. We could add in minor "sins" like smoking or eating with DFed ones. Perhaps the person has taken up smoking or drinking as a way to find some relief. Perhaps they have gone to a doctor and now have the means to die and no reason to stop themsleves.
They hope that someone will come to see them - to "shepherd the sheep" but no one comes. They are forgotten. When they do get to a meeting they are marked as weak or worse.
In some cases the spouse is an elder and there are many other pressures that unless you have lived it you would not understand. (this was my situation)
This is an easy step to using the means at hand.
To avoid suicide it is better to realize that a person has to take responsibility for their own foolish behavior.
Yes a person has to take responsibility but in the org that is so hard when all the doors outside the org have been closed and those inside are nailed shut.
I'm not suggesting suicide as an option. Lord knows I have too close to that option myself but I can totally understand the forces that drive a person to this level of desperation
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berylblue
To avoid suicide it is better to realize that a person has to take responsibility for their own foolish behavior.
--Proplog2
How the F*** is a chemical imbalance in one's brains, and the suicidal ideation (and sadly, sometimes, actualitzation) which results from such chemical imbalance, "foolish behavior"?????
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LyinEyes
Lady Lee you just describe my mother's plight exactly, elder hubby and all. It happened all in those phases you mentioned and it just snowballed to the point of her losing her will to live, the pain of her guilt was more than she could bear.
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larrynbabies
You know that in order to do a scientific study on suicide in the jw communtiy you would have to take in a number of factors.Do weinculde those that die from not accepting blood? I would think so. then would we ever get all of the information from the organization about active memebers I think not. Of course let us not forget the predomenant numbers of those who commit suicide due to having been molested and raped. Let us not forget those who have commited suiced by having been dis-fellowshipped having been shut off from all of those who once thought loved them including family members. It is simply do to the organizations failure to admit the truth in these matter that unfortunatly a scientific studywill be very hard,if not impossible to do. If a-holes like that want to come into this forum and make blind and ingnorant statements like he has. Then let us pray for god to give him a dose of his own organizations medicine.
The organization still has a way to reach out and hurt those who simply want to stay away. Lyin, Ladylee, Myself we need I know it is hard to take the high road and have forgiveness of those who tresspass against us but you know we are human and it is natural and valid for us to thing very badly about this guy. I know i do in my first posting here I was going to call him a number of things but i really feel sad and embarrased for him. What a fool.
Larrynbabies
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larrynbabies
I will also note it is a scientific fact that someone going through PTSD does undergo physialogical and chemical changes in the brain. Thus resulting in the most severe and prominent forms of depression. So there for it is a fact not an oppinion that external factors have an influence in depression and suicide. You need to read up on traumatic events and depression. It may keep you from making ingnorant postings in that regard in the future.
larrynbabies