drawcard said: Since, the gospels were written after 70 CE and not by the people that are given credit for them (the gospel of Mathew was not written by the apostle Mathew etc.).
Many scholars including some not so conservative date the gospels pre-70 (AT Robertson fror instance Redating The New Testament). Matthew was written by Matthew (testimony of early fathers).
Also, the gospel of Luke states that all of the information comes from second hand sources I do not see how the references made about Jesus could be given much respect.
Luke went to primary sources, as well as himself "having had a perfect understanding of all these things from the very first."
Luke Chapter 1
1: Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2: Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
3: It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4: That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Acts Chapter 1
1: The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Paul never saw Jesus except in a heat induced delusional vision and was just writting down what he had heard or he felt was true about Jesus and most of his writtings are earlier than the Gospels.
Paul (who before his vision was a pharisee who persecuted Christians certainly knew the details of the historical Jesus). see 1 Corinthians Chapter 15, and Acts 13:16-37 where Paul links Jesus with historical persons such as John the Baptist and Pilate.
Acts 13
16: Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. . . 23: Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24: When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25: And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. 26: Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. 7: For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28: And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
To say that Jesus must be true, because other characters mentioned in the gospels are known to have exsisted would allow us to say that many characters in Greek mythology are also true. Many times fables are made up around actual events in world history.
Wrong, there is an abundant difference between the historicity of things in the gospels (the crucifixion by pilate for instance see my first post) and pagan myths.
If you include the quote from Josephus it is because you are grasping for straws and have not read any debates on the issue. He was not contemporary, the quote does not appear in earlier translations, he was a devout jew who called Jesus the Christ, he only gave the Christ a couple of sentences yet gave other messiahs whole chapters.
I believe that the quotes from Josephus that I quoted in my first post (the pilate section of the TF, as well as the James reference) are in all the manuscripts of Josephus as well as in the early translations. Which "other messiahs" are you refering to? Were they military rebels?
