Did Jesus Christ exist at all?

by Tyler 83 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Tyler,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you expect more fanfare - something learned from jwism? - it was an expectation of pharisees - they're still waiting.

    Your words

    .....is odd seeing as Jesus is purported to have caused such an impact in Judean society
    The odd thing about Josephus is that every now and then he comes out with a perephial about Jesus, yet he devotes no chapter to him.

    would appear to be suggesting that there should have been more 'authoritive' sources - to a lot of people, Jesus was just some other guy - if they were into the local religious gossip, they may know about some weirdo who turned over the tables in the temple one day.

    And Rem

    ...agree that it is extremely suspicious that there are no contemporary records of Jesus' existence outside the bible.

    Again, how many other local religious speakers have extensive records?

    I suppose that the wt didn't think long about the size of mustard seeds.

    paduan

  • Mr. Kim
    Mr. Kim

    IMHO

    Did Jesus Christ exist at all? In my mind and heart and from what I see and have seen, YES!

    That is how I feel about it. I have no need or desire to prove anything.

    KIM

  • Tyler
    Tyler

    Fanfair? JWism? I expect no more than secular confirmation of what the bible says. Surely that is not too much to ask from someone who claims that he is the only way to aproach God?

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    I have already presented 8 early witness to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ under Pilate (some Biblical, some secular). The crucifixion by Pilate is discussed in Encyclpedias as being historical.

    On the Crucifixion, Harvey writes: "It would be no exaggeration to say that this event is better attested, and supported by a more impressive array of evidence, than any other event of comparable importance of which we have knowledge from the ancient world." [Harv.JesC, 11] Harvey quoted by J.P. Holding

    The below point is separte yet related. I am here presenting it for reference not debate.

    There are also references by Julius Africanus in his Chronography, to historians Thallus (A.D. 52?) and Phelegon discussing the darkness at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ (hense also an indirect witness to the crucifixion itself), though this is debated.

    Julius Africanus

    http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-06/anf06-50.htm#P2221_636742

    XVIII. 47

      On the Circumstances Connected with Our Saviour's Passion and His Life-Giving Resurrection.

    1. As to His works severally, and His cures effected upon body and soul, and the mysteries of His doctrine, and the resurrection from the dead, these have been most authoritatively set forth by His disciples and apostles before us. On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Saviour fails on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let that opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. 48 Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth-manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period. But it was a darkness induced by God, because the Lord happened then to suffer. And calculation makes out that the period of 70 weeks, as noted in Daniel, is completed at this time.

    The following link discusses the Thallus reference and why the darkness was not recorded by Seneca and Pliny the Elder. http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_01_01_01_THL.html

  • ISP
    ISP

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/52996/9.ashx

    A similar thread dealt with some of these issues.

    ISP

  • gumby
    gumby
    In my mind and heart and from what I see and have seen, YES!

    That is how I feel about it. I have no need or desire to prove anything.

    KIM

    Hi MR.Kim,

    I think you are doing right if that is what you have CURRENTLY seen and heard and are convinced in your mind. I felt that way also for many years but also felt I OWED it to myself to ...."see the other side of the coin".

    Many who put their entire trust in Jesus have not looked at the sceptical side and do not wish to do so. Myself.....I had to or I wouldn't rest.

    I'm not trying to push Christianity from your life or anyones elses.........but an honest examination of these things is righly due to us who have been duped once already.

    Take care,

    Gumby

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    Gumby said: I'm not trying to push Christianity from your life or anyones elses.........but an honest examination of these things is righly due to us who have been duped once already.

    Gumby, have you considered that perhaps the myth sites are not being honest and are trying to dupe people also?

  • rem
    rem

    A Paduan,

    Again, how many other local religious speakers have extensive records?

    I'm not asking for extensive records. I'm asking for any contemporary secular references at all. Many former religious figures have at least some contemporary secular records of their existence. They may not be extensive, but they exist. Curiously, none exist for Jesus.

    rem

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Well what about when Herod killed all the male children under a certain age? Aren't the secular references to that proof that Christ existed? I mean man, what a horrible slaughter!

  • Faraon
    Faraon

    Hooberus,

    Faraon, The "Pagan Origins" site you posted has been brought up here before. I have looked at some of the evidence on it and have found problems. below is an example:

    This is all I could read from your post. When most of your posts appear they seem to be blank. I do not know if your computer and mine are incompatible, but it is almost impossible to read them.

    Have you heard from someone else having the same problem?

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