by integ 138 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Swan, lol I must have "perused" integ's comment too quickly
JH, kewl, the 4th edition.
KGB, how kind of you to pass your copy on. I donated both books to the local library hoping some curious JW would look at those books at the library, where no one can see them!
*this should take me 2 months*
It was so interesting to me AND confirmed so many of my suspicions that I couldn't put the book down. It took me three days, but I read at every opportunity I could get.
Chapter 12,page 343:"the Society had sent me a check for $10,000,as a gift 'to aid in reestablishing in the south.'
Since when does the Society send money to Apostates and Liars! What was their true motive?
Since when does the Society send money to Apostates and Liars! What was their true motive?
I understand that this was sent to Ray Franz shortly after he left Bethel while he was still a member of the congregation. What was more unusual was that a similar sum was given to Ed Dunlap's wife after he had been disfellowshipped. I did write to the Society about this but they declined to comment on particular cases and wrote generally that provision is made to assist elderly ones with many years of service. I also wrote to Ray Franz and he confirmed it was quite unexpected and was given to assist in relocating with no strings attached.
Earnest
I too know Ray personally- He is a most humble man in MO...Yes he is still alive-- Isnt it so sad how under mind control we all were. They will believe what ever they are told. My suggestion to anyone on here -who has not listened to Randys cassett tapes !!!!DO SO!!!! I have them all -When some one comes out of the Borg I let them listen to them....I am not trying to sum up buisness for Randy- But I am telling you they are the very things that helped me to understand the evil of that cult....
I would ask a JW, since there is not honourable way to criticize the WTS without being ousted, where can a JW find credible, and critical information that has been written by somebody still approved by the society?
Ray Franz is a better man because he DID STAND UP FOR THE RIGHTEOUS THINGS in secret and public and he left the Borg-Org to better himself and to "get out from among the UN-righteous ones." He stood up and told the TRUTH. Much different from "the truth" fed to the everyday JW!
I have a question for Randy Waters and others....
I have read the testimony of what happened in the Ray Franz era from his book and also those posted at the Waters' site. These few testimonies are of those that left the organization.
Why is it that there is no testimony from Witnesses of that era that are still in the Organization? It shouldn't be hard to find and as many are still in Bethel. How about testimony from Harold Jackson, Liverance, Baltasar Perla, Karl Adams, Joel Adams, D. Mercante, Robert Wallen, and David Olson. I have had the pleasure of asking some questions to these brothers about what went on duing the 1979-1980 era in Bethel. They're point of view of the matters is very interesting. Unfortunately, I never wrote this information down. But someone should be able to do an interview with these brothers about their recollections. Only by having both sides of a story, can you honestly come to a conclusion.
SoJ In case you haven't noticed the WTS highly discouraged active JWs from publishing their stories. Just as in any dysfunctional family the dirty laundry is kept hidden and only "acceptable" information is released to the public.
Sword,
They're point of view of the matters is very interesting. Unfortunately, I never wrote this information down.
Your statement does not make sense. It does seem that you do remember what was said, without having written it down. Please feel free to inform us what their ‘take’ was on this situation.
The fact is that these persons have been told NOT to discuss these issues on pains of punishment, and they will not do so. I can guarantee that what you heard from these persons is a sanitized version designed not to 'stumble' you. If Mr. Franz is lying it means by default that the scores who were aware of what was happening and who also left Branches, including some from overseas Branches, were also lying.
Raymond Franz has been as much as called a liar in the pages of the WTS itself in numerous articles dealing with ‘apostasy’ in the early 80’s. Of course no evidence of actual events were discussed and presented as evidence by the GB of his 'lying', because they cannot afford for the information that Mr. Franz bought to the public to become common knowledge within the WTS. Without doubt, if every Jehovah’s Witness read ‘Crisis Of Conscience’, by far the majority would within a few months of digesting its contents, leave their Kingdom Hall’s never to return again and the GB knows this only to well.
It may interest you to know that I have questioned one person on your list regarding the authenticity of Mr. Franz book some years ago. When specifically questioned, he just remarked, ‘Step, you put me in a very difficult position’. I knew what he was implying and so did he!
So Sword, and others who may doubt the authenticity of Mr. Franz testimony, we need to place a bottom line to this issue. What we have is the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses who’s honesty is being pitched against the honesty of Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, the Sanchez family, Randy Watters, Tom Cabbeen, and numerous others, including a two very close friends of my own from a European Branch. I wonder what a jury would make of this. A GB who refuse to testify in their defense, and silence by punitive measures any who seek to view both sides of this issue, together with a mountain of evidence against them that casts a shadow over every word that they have uttered for the past twenty four years. If the WTS pursued just one succesfull case of slander against any one of the people mentioned would discredit them all, but interestingly this has never even been intimated, let alone pursued by the WTS. When I once asked a very senior member of Legal why this had not happened, he thought for a moment, shrugged his shoulders saying, "Perhaps the GB cannot be seen speaking with disfellowshipped persons"....lol The truth is that they know that in nay such case they would have to personally testify and they would then be proved themselves to be slanderers, before the world.
Recently Blondie made a statement describing the GB as just another body of elders with greater delusions of grandeur. This is so close to the truth. If you want to know how the GB operates, then just look at the local system of elders and add, stirring briskly, a huge pot of self-delusion.
Grappling with your cognitively dissonant state over this scenario is not easy Sword, but then doing the honest thing never was.
HS
