Ray Franz.....LIAR?

by integ 138 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • xjw_b12
    xjw_b12
    But someone should be able to do an interview with these brothers about their recollections. Only by having both sides of a story, can you honestly come to a conclusion.

    soj. C'mon man. Give your head a shake. Are you serious? Like they would give an interview, to begin with. Even if it was with a neutral, third person, the WTS would never allow it to happen.

    And if they published their own version of the story, the only ones who would believe it would be themselves.

    I think I'm seeing a pattern here soj. Over the past 2-3 weeks your arguments have lost some of their "fire and brimstone" haughtiness, and your replies are bordering on plaintive. You're not losing your resolve are you?

  • SwordOfJah
    SwordOfJah

    It does seem that you do remember what was said, without having written it down. Please feel free to inform us what their ‘take’ was on this situation.

    I do remember, but I would like to have a word-for-word account. Unfortunately at the time, I did not think about these matters. I don't feel I would be believed if I just posted my memories of these conversations.

    It may interest you to know that I have questioned one person on your list regarding the authenticity of Mr. Franz book some years ago.

    Could you PM me and let me know who in the list you talked to. I know these brothers very well.

    If the WTS pursued just one succesfull case of slander against any one of the people mentioned

    Yes, I've read this argument before: If it's not true why don't they sue. But it's really silly to use that argument. The GB would have to make public private conversations, they would have to involve many people as witnesses. The personal attacks by these ex-JWs would begin. There really wouldn't be any solution. I asked one time brother Swingle, who was an awesome brother, why they never tried to stop Ray and his stories. If you knew brother Swingle, you know that he as very open and didn't beat around the bush. Anyway, he said that Ray could write whatever he wanted, but as Witnesses of Jehovah our job was to do his will and preach the good news, not go around suing former disgruntled members.

  • amac
    amac
    he said that Ray could write whatever he wanted, but as Witnesses of Jehovah our job was to do his will and preach the good news, not go around suing former disgruntled members.

    I don't buy that. COC is probably the number one publication that drags people out of the "Truth." The GB know this and if they are trying to preach the good news and had means to stop an evil apostate that was stopping people from following God, you can bet your butt they would sue him.

  • mind
    mind

    psalms 11:165

  • mind
    mind

    psalms 119:165

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Lol...Sword,

    No need to PM you. Swingle was the man. He also had some sympathy with Mr. Franz and his views you might want to know.

    Anyway, he said that Ray could write whatever he wanted, but as Witnesses of Jehovah our job was to do his will and preach the good news, not go around suing former disgruntled members.

    You sound like a good person at heart Sword, but can't you see that you had just been given the party line and you swallowed it hook line and sinker! What you need to ask yourself is whether you have actually heard a denial from any member of the GB of any of the information contained in the book. For goodness sakes man, Swingle could not even hint that he had read the book lest he encouraged you by his own example to read a 'banned' book. Swingle also knew that RF was not a disgruntled member, but that he had felt compelled to write his book and publish it to put to rest the many vile and malevolent rumours that the GB had allowed its adherents ( just to remind you - the only true Christians on earth ) to spread about for many years with impunity. One ex-missionary that I know, still active as a JW had even been told by JW's in good standing that RF was an multiple adulterer and convicted thief!

    But it's really silly to use that argument. The GB would have to make public private conversations, they would have to involve many people as witnesses.

    On the contrary. Mr. Franz book has been the cause of much disruption and a huge amount of JW's leaving the Organization the past twenty years, more each week. It would be in the GB own interest to publicly prove their case, if they can. And that is the proviso, if they can.

    As to whether the WTS would fight cases outside their theological boundaries, well just look at the French taxation issue. They, if you remember were quite willing to pay for a massive advertisment in the New York Times a couple of years ago accusing the French Government of persecuting the WTS by demanding that it pay fair taxes as a religion not designated as such under the French Consititution. Did not Jesus say that Caeser must paid regardless of what Christians thought about the fairness of taxes?

    There is no greater liar than the man who lies to himself.

    HS

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    I agree with hillary. Swingle was a sympathizer with Franz and I was quite surprised he later turned hard line, apparently forced to by the rest of the GB because they knew his feelings. They have made it plain they DO NOT EVER want to discuss this incident. Now maybe years down the line the second generation of grunts will make up something for the yearbook to go down as history, but the actual witnesses living today are not touching it with a ten-foot pole. There are, of course, many alternate views of what happened by JWs, but the Society keeps them quiet. :-))

    Randy Watters

    http://www.freeminds.org

  • minimus
    minimus

    Swingle's comment was the standard JW line. Since they really can't defend their position, they smear the man.....SOJ, do you really believe the things you are repeating???

  • integ
    integ

    Nice to have you back Swordy...I thought you might have given up on us.

    Integ.

  • integ
    integ

    SWORDY....

    Are we still going to Karaoke tonight?

    Integ.

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