Damn JT.......that was killer!Gumby
just trying to keep it real thats all
Ray Franz.....LIAR?
by integ 138 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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JT
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DannyBear
JT,
****so instead of listening and learning from those who may have something to share about that they were able to see or come to know due to their position, these jw act like they are talking to some new person off the street****
It's called 'stick your head in the sand' maybe the terror will pass you by.
I have shared much about my history in the org. That my mother was the personal housekeeper on Staten Island residence of JR. That my dad was his chauffer and body guard, that he was liscensed by the State of NY to carry a concealed weapon on behalf of da judge.
The memories of meeting Hayden Covington, Milton Henchel, Knorr, Franz, and other's at the highest levels are still very vivid for me. My grandfather assigned by Charles Taze himself to be a traveling rep for the society.
Not much about the history and personal insights into the personalities that invented this religion is far from my grasp. Yet it amazes me how few exjw's or even so called 'faithful' pay much heed.
Often it is easier to deal with the unknown rather than REALITY.
Danny
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LoverOfTruth
The sad fact is, most JWs will have to hit "Rock Bottom" before they start to see the real truth.
The adherents to WTBS and other cults are very similar to Alcoholics and/or Drug Addicts.
They will do anything to keep their drug of choice.
I would simply advise your relative, she is free to her own opinion. She sounds like a very bitter person so perhaps her, "rock bottom" is near!
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onacruse
Hi Earnest
While I do not agree with everything Ray Franz has written in CoC and ISoCF
nomb, but I'd very much like to know what you disagree with in Ray's books. I've read COC twice, and extended parts of ISOCF, and nothing at all jumped out at me as questionable (except, now, that I no longer share his apparent belief in the Bible as totus in toto, et totus in qualibet parte )
Respects,
Craig
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happy man
dannybear.
That was intresting, I have to look on history to look what you have to say, you must have a lot of intresting things to tell, when do you leave JW?
one thing to you all, when i read COC i understand that RF denied that he have bee in any form
of group who was studing fore themselfs, this was a lie he say, he now nothing of this, BUT when i read what some other peopel say like this:
The big change in my perspective came in early 1979. On a business trip to Massachusetts with three other factory overseers, we were discussing the importance of faith for salvation and how the organization makes one's works the big issue (rather than true faith) through the counting of time (going door-to-door), keeping personal activity records, etc. From this time I began a study that intrigued me more and more, as I studied Paul's letters to the Romans and Galatians. At Bethel, I attended a Monday night Bible study after the family "Watchtower study." We used different translations of the Bible and went through the New Testament chapter by chapter. It was becoming noticeable to those within our group that there was a significant difference between studying what the Watchtower said about the Bible and actually studying the Bible
Can someone tell why this storyies look like someaone not telling the truth?
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Earnest
Hi Craig,
I'd very much like to know what you disagree with in Ray's books.
I would not say anything jumped out at me as questionable, more like a vague feeling that he "protesteth too much". What he presents factually cannot be faulted but when it comes to exegesis I think he sometimes leans too far from the suggestion of any hierarchical structure. For example, in the last chapter in ISoCF he writes regarding 'Elders in the Christian Community' (pp.689-691) and suggests it is not referring to an office or appointment but just how a person is viewed in the community. In his discussion of Acts 14:23 about appointing older men in each congregation he argues that "these were special circumstances and involved apostolic authority...an authority no longer existent." My reading of the requirements for overseers, elders and servants in the pastoral epistles convinces me there was nothing temporary intended about it.
Apart from the two books he has written, did you know there are also a number of essays on the 'Commentary Press' website (although I am uncertain if they are all by RF). I found the essay on 'The Flood of Noah's Time' (http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html) of particular interest.
Best wishes,
Earnest
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Deleted
Lover of truth wrote:
The sad fact is, most JWs will have to hit "Rock Bottom" before they start to see the real truth.
Right on the money, Love! I'd add that it's not just once. For me my own "deletion" when I just wanted to step down and the first inquisition (on smoking a couple of cigs) that my daughter went through weren't enough. It was until her second inquisition (stemming from a report that a worldly girl smoked with her) that I started to see this for what it was. I said to the two inquisitor-elders that came by 9 months later that if they had spent as much time encouraging the kids as they did questioning them perhaps there would have been a better outcome. None of the teenage girls who were ratted on back in 96 stayed in Dubdom, even the girl who did the ratting.
Until then I was a company man and IF I would have read (more likely scanned) I would have only been able to conclude he RF must have been the typical disgruntled xdub.
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Trotafox
Watchtower (scratching their heads). Hum--m-m. Well, we:
"Can't kill him" (although I bet that ran across their mind more than once )
"Can't sue him" (cause he's telling the truth and we don't want THAT exposed; besides, he has WITNESSES. )
But we CAN destroy his credibility in the minds of JW's by BRAINWASHING* them so they have the right response at the right time. Just like we did with the INTERNET. We couldn't kill that either but heh-heh, we had YEARS to work on their heads so they had the proper response at the proper time.
*Er-r-r "maniuplating their thinking". Is that better?
JW's need to wake up and get the fog out of their brains. The WT is lying to you; not Ray Franz.
Trot
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hillary_step
Well Said Ms. Trot.
HS
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Trotafox
Thank you, H.S. (JW thinking irritates me now that my own fog has lifted..but I understand!)
Trot