Why Was Adam Blocked From Tree of Life?

by AGuest 71 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  DannyBear

  Noko,

  ****DannyBear, these things are not hard to know, open up your heart and see for yourself. Do you really want to cover up the truth? I dare say, you won't be able to.****

  If anyone needed to see an example of why the ancient Isrealites, Arabs, and other mystical cultures accepted spoken and written words as being inspired of god, you and AGuest just provided the answer.

  The ancient scrolls that turned up in a printed format with Guttenburg's 17th century King James Version, is a compilation of very similar works. In other words you two provide all the proof needed to reject the bible as inspired utterances of God.

  Danny
• 

  noko

  In other words you two provide all the proof needed to reject the bible as inspired utterances of God.

  Really?? Have you not read that all scriptures are inspired? Then again isn't prophecy not man's will but men did indeed spoke from God as they where told by holy spirit? Now if you where Catholic, isn't your Bible somewhat larger then if you wasn't? So what is Scripture and what is man's creation DannyBear in this case? Which Bible is all scripture? The New World Translation? The King James Translation? The Catholic Bible? The New King James Version? The New International Version? . . . .? Each has their differences in teachings, is that of one spirit?. Then you have literally thousands upon thousands of different sects and religions stemming from these many Bibles, is that of the same Church, one Christ, the same spirit? I tell you there is one Church, one congregation, one priesthood, one spirit that are in agreement and that is from the heaven above and inside of those who believe.

  Let scriptures be written upon your heart Danny, true food, true drink, true life, the Word of God.
• 

  DannyBear

  ***So what is Scripture and what is man's creation DannyBear in this case?***

  I could understand most of what you stated, but the question above really stumped me.

  Let me see if I understand what you and AGuest are implying here. Uhhh use the bible to prove your points when needed, but when it's painfuly obvious the bible is goofy, then you must talk to (also see) god himself or one of his representitives? Is that what your saying No?

  Try answering a question with direct plain english, instead of relying upon smarmy religious mumbo jumbo. It appears that anyone who subscribes to your beliefs, must take a crash course in archaic bible speak.

  It is the words that turn you guys on. Pretty much the same way jw's get all jazzed when they hear about the 'faithful and discreet slave class', 'spirit directed', 'sanctified', 'chosen out of all the nations', kinda tommy rot they love to hear week in, week out. It is those trigger words, that give substance to alot of hot air.

  Danny
• 

  DJ

  Aguest,

  I have two sisters who are jw's. Prior to being baptized about 8 years ago, they both had visions. One sister claims to have visited Macedonia where she learned that the jws are right, etc.. The other sister had an experience where she thought that she was being spoken to by our Lord and she felt that she was gifted in healing and teaching, etc...after some months of this,her voice told her to kill her child and sent her to a charismatic church down the road. I don't have all of the details but she became a jw too. My mother became involved with my sisters and had an experience of her own and was baptized with them. My dad saw some of these things going on with them although he didn't personally have it happen to him and he was baptized as a jw too. They are all fully convinced that Jehovah saved them from their ordeal and led them to be jw's.The sister who "has been to Macedonia" still holds to her visions and it keeps her firmly planted in the jw religion. This is why I am concerned for you because the angels of light can be so persuasive in their deceit. It is hard for me to accept that you cannot test these utterances with the bible because if the spirit told you that the bible is wrong then you are wide open for all kinds of teachings. love, dj
• 

  noko

  ***So what is Scripture and what is man's creation DannyBear in this case?***
  

  I could understand most of what you stated, but the question above really stumped me.

  You have two Bibles (Catholic and non Catholic), one has more scriptures(writtings) then the other, which is true?
  

  Next question is which Bible is true?

  It is the Holy Spirit which teaches you the truth, any of those Bibles with the Holy Spirit is scripture because you will see and hear the truth while any errors are erased or corrected. Many of us are too weak to deal with heavenly stuff directly, so written symbols are used instead to get our hearts ready to be written upon if we are willing being babes in Christ needing milk first before taking in solid food. That is what I know.
• 

  AGuest

  May you all have peace!

  DannyB, dear one... I sometimes cannot fathom you, you of all people: would you have me LIE to you? I speak the truth on this forum... and yet, I am told to STOP... to say things that people would RATHER hear... indeed, CAN hear... than the truth of what I hear... and see. What is UP with that? Cyncism is not... progress, dear one. Cynicism and its companion "ridicule" are from days of old. Read the Bible: it is FULL of folks desparaging those sent as prophets. And even when such things spoken come to pass... or become revealed... the VERY next generation falls right back into its own cynicism and ridicule. Why? Because... if it doesn't happen to THEM... then it doesn't happen! Think Saul of Tarsus. The man KILLLED christians! Hauled them out of their homes and turned them over... until it happend... FOR HIM. And then he becomes one of the FOREMOST "believers".

  I do not ask you or anyone here to believe me, DBear... I never have, never will. I don't CARE if you do or don't. It... is... irrelevant! I do not ask you or anyone here to LISTEN to me. I never have, I never will. I don't CARE if you do or you don't. It... is... irrelevant! Why? Because... this... is... not... about... ME... in the way that perhaps you and others think! It is NOT a cry for attention... a "look at me," "listen to ME" matter. Not in the least! It is a matter... of keeping a PROMISE: someone was kind to me. VERY kind. Enough so that prior to his kindness, I felt myself... I dunno... "doomed" or something. You know, unworthy, never able to measure up... yada, yada. I LEARNED such a thing... from "religion." RELIGION... told me that that was my fate because I was a "sinner." They also told me that there was a saviour - yet, they told me that such saviour... was also unmerciful. Well, who wants THAT?! Not me!

  But, at a time when I WASN'T looking for a "saviour"... he... came... to ME! Why? Primarily, he said, because I ASKED for him. I have since learned, however, that his purpose... with ME... was to tell me the TRUTH about himself... and his Father. And it is SO far from what "religion" teaches. They are NOTHING like the "exacting" gods of religion! NOTHING! And once I learned this... I cannot tell you how this knowledge, this understanding... has served to set me free!... once I learned this, I came to know that the ONLY thing they want from ME... is to tell others what I have come to know! So, what's the BIG deal? I've been set free... why in the WORLD would I want others who love God to continue in the fallacy of Him being some "do as I say, but not as I do," tyrant, such as religion... and those who lead it and speak for it... say He is? What kind of friend would I be... if I KNEW folks were under the wrong impression of someone I loved dearly... and I kept my mouth shut about it?

  What if it were YOU, Danny? What if I KNEW you... very well... had come and met you... found you to be the SWEETEST "bear" in the world (and, of course, you are!)... and then would come here and listen to people discuss you... in detail... saying all kinds of things about you that were absolutely untrue? What kind of friend would I be if I did not speak up with the TRUTH about you... what you are truly like... even what you LOOK like? Now, you and others might say, "Well, I should come and speak up for myself." To that I would say, perhaps. But perhaps you are the kind of person that says, "To hell with them; they don't know me... and I am not going to waste MY time and MY breath explaining myself to THEM. If they REALLY want to know about me... tell 'em to COME TO ME and ASK ME." Truly, I think that scenario would be closer to the truth, don't you?

  And so, here I am... saying, "My DEAR friend, Danny... is NOT how you people believe him to be. He does not act as you say... or as others have (who have NOT seen him or heard) say... nor does he LOOK like they say." "Well, how do YOU know?" folks would say... and I would say, "Because... I have SEEN him... I have TALKED to him... I KNOW him." Should they, because they have NOT had such a "privilege"... dismiss what I say? Can you truly say that you would receive all who came to your home to see for themselves what you are "about"? Or would you grant time only to those whose MOTIVE for coming... was pure? Would you TRULY let any old body traipse around in your home... just cause you feared they would say even worse things about you... including that you did NOT exist... if you didn't? Would you really CARE?

  I would ask you to think hard on this one, dear DMan... long and hard. I have said to ALL here that what occurs with me... CAN occur with them... if they TRULY wish it... and if their motive is pure. Therefore, I do not think ones are justified in deriding me for what has occurred with ME... simply because it has not occurred... with THEM. It is not ME that they should be looking at.

  As always, I bid you the greatest love... and peace. And you know I am sincere in my saying it: the WORDS... are irrelevant.

  Your servant, friend and a slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  DannyBear

  Shel,

  Thanks for the explanation.

  ****It is NOT a cry for attention... a "look at me," "listen to ME" matter. Not in the least! It is a matter... of keeping a PROMISE: someone was kind to me. VERY kind. Enough so that prior to his kindness, I felt myself... I dunno... "doomed" or something. You know, unworthy, never able to measure up... yada, yada****

  Iam asking you to to really think about what you just stated above. If this entity was in fact Very kind to you, offering you hope and relief from suffering. It came with a Very high price!

  For this entity to request (require) you to 'tell other's' about him, how is he/she any different than the god/gods of other religions?

  On top of that, to ask you to endure the jibes the ridicule associated with the telling of the story, is it in fact the opposite of love and compassion, in fact evil? You think this spirit or entity is unaware of the response you would get from other's who do not see or hear the same voice(s)? Surely not. This is not loving, especialy when they (he/she)can and should reveal themselves to all the rest of us poor shmucks, who are just as yadda yadda yadda.

  What this tells me about this visitation you describe is very simple.....they are masquerading as loving and kind!!!!!

  Shel you are obviously a dear soul, probably very loyal friend to those you touch. No let me say even to those you have never seen or touched. Knowing this about you, could in fact you be duped or taken advantage of? I think so. Because we are all taken sometime or other in our lives.....ex jdub talking here.

  It seems that about once a year or so, I feel compelled to try and awaken the 'doubting Thomas' in you, but to date I have not been able to do so.

  But since I have grown very fond of you, expect me back next year, dear one.

  Danny
• 

  AGuest

  The greatest of peace to you!

  Please know that I... hear... you. I HAVE "tested" the inspired utterances... over and over and over again. This is not... easy... dear one: I cannot tell you how much faith my Lord has had to GIVE me... because I severely lacked in that area.

  I did hear things of a "disturbing" nature very early on. Twice. I remember once, that voice (which is NOT the same as my Lord's, but sometimes seems VERY close!) telling me to harm someone who had been causing me GREAT harm. And I was well intending to do it! And at the last moment, I heard my Lord's voice, which is not that much different from the other, so that I had to listen CAREFULLY... say to me, "This is not YOU, child! You would not do such a thing - do NOT listen!" And he was RIGHT!

  But to help you understand a bit more where I am coming from... I will tell you of one incident where my Lord spoke to me. It was this past Friday, in downtown San Francisco:

  I was in the City, to attend an important and prestigious luncheon. As I was getting off the BART... I walked over to one of those street "port-a-potty" deals to look at the map on its wall. As I stood there, a fight broke out not 10 feet away from me: a forty-fifity something-ish black lady... and an early 20s-ish white man were fighting over one of them's prolonged use of the toilet. Both looked pretty "dangerous"... the man looking "homeless"... the woman looking to be from the "Tenderloin"... a VERY dangerous part of San Francisco. Anyone who lives in this area can attest to that!

  As the argument got quite heated, I'm thinkin'... "Aw, dang! Why do folks always have to act up?" But, I had somewhere to go, so... But the next thing I knew, the woman pulled out a knife. Now, let me explain this knife: it was BIG. Humongous. It was one of those "hi-tech" looking jobs... all stainless steel... with a long, curved, super-pointy blade with holes in it, with teeth toward the bottom. She hit the button and that blade snapped out, and I thought, "Oh, crud... somebody's gonna die!" I mean, people... scattered!! Me? I walked as slowly... and quietly... as I could... toward the cable car office. I had an important meeting to attend... people to meet there... and having my day start with the vision of someone being gutted right there on the street... uh-uh... not me: I was NOT going to stand around and capture that picture. I did NOT want to even see it, 'cause what I DIDN'T see... and therefore, didn't KNOW... wouldn't hurt me. I didn't want to answer any questions... give any statements... or have any graphic visuals invading my mind and heart.

  So, I'm standing there at the ticket window... and as I get my little $2 cable car ticket... the noise got louder: the guy's friend was crying... LOUDLY... saying, "Please, people, PLEASE... why do you have to DO this?! STOP it! Please!!" He was pitiful! But... not my problem! Sooooo... I turn away from the window and was JUST about to step toward the line of folks waiting for the cable car... when my Lord says, "Where are you going?"

  Now, I'm like... "Ummmm... I'm going to get on the cable car and go to my meeting!" To which he says, "You're not going to stop the fight?" And I'm like, "HECK no! That woman has a KNIFE! A... BIG knife! How in the world can I stop her? If she's gonna cut him, she's gonna cut him! What if she cuts ME?! What if she kills ME?!" By this time, I am shaking... because... I knew he wasn't going to drop the subject. He did not drop the subject. He said, "What are you afraid of? Did I not train you for this? You know how to do this... think back on all of the other times... was I not WITH you?"

  Now, I cannot recount for you all of the "other" times, but I have to say there were many. In my line of work... for the past almost 20 years, I have managed/supervised low-income housing projects... well, it happens from time to time. It SHOULDN'T... and it does depend on where you ARE... but it happens. Gangs violence, domestic violence, street fights, etc. So, he was right, I had done it before... many times. But... I was in my 20-30s then... and much more... ummmm... shall we say... brave... bold... naive... and not so aware of my "mortality." I am now at an age (43) where I truly want NO "drama"... none at all. Which is why I changed careers for a while.

  Anyway, he asks, "Well, aren't you going to stop it?" to which I groaned inside, but somehow found my way slowly sliding back over toward the fighters. I did NOT want to go! "But what am I going to say?" I asked him... "and how do I know she won't turn on me? People DO that... turn on the people just trying to help? How do I know she won't turn on ME and say, "B! Mind your own f-in business!! I mean, that happens... people DO that (especially black women - I KNOW this, because I AM one!)... what if she kills ME?!!!"

  And he... laughed. I'm not kidding. He laughed. Then he said, "She won't kill you. She WANTS someone to stop her... and you're the only one around. No one else cares and no one else will take the risk. You're the only one... and YOU care, don't you? I am with you; don't be afraid. Go, help her."

  So... I reached the woman... and I walked up... and I touched her on her sleeve... and she wheeled around! Oh, LORDY!! And I just started talking. I said:

  "My sister... you don't have to do this. You don't have to let these people take you where you don't want to go. You have everyone's attention. Look around. See? They all see you and they all see you don't want to be messed with."

  I said some more things... but what resulted BLEW ME AWAY: She said... "THANK YOU! I am SO sorry, you're right... thank you! It's just that they were f-ing with me and I am SO tired. But you're right... THANK you...."

  And then... she grabbed me (with that big honkin' knife still open in her hand!!!!!!!)... and gave me the tightest hug I think she could muster! She said, "I'm sorry... I'm so sorry..." and then remembered the knife... which she closed. When she let me go... she was smiling. We hugged again... and then I walked away. And as I walked away, do you know what my Lord said?

  "See? Now what were you afraid of? I am here."

  So, now, DJ... and all you others... I ask you: what would you have me DO? Had I ignored the voice... someone could be dead. Maybe more than one someone. And another someone could be sitting, rotting, in jail. Maybe more than one someone. And such a thing may still come to pass - I don't know. All I DO know is that on FRIDAY, June 20, 2003, around 9:30am at Powell and Market in San Francisco, CA... NO ONE died and NO ONE went to jail... because a voice told me that I knew what to do... and I obeyed it.

  I do not care... whether you believe it or not. But I do bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  m0nk3y

  Aguest, next time you talk to Jesus can you ask him who I am and why am I on this Earth ?

  And also ask him why my prayers were never ever answered despite my crying myself a river of tears and crumpled on the ground sobbing for help?

  monk3y
• 

  gumby

  Well I'm going to butt-in on you two lovebirds, and do some more shelby reeming

  RELIGION... told me that that was my fate because I was a "sinner." They also told me that there was a saviour - yet, they told me that such saviour... was also unmerciful. Well, who wants THAT?! Not me!

  Shelby....I have NEVER been to a church where the savior was taught to be ...."unmercifull". What church did you attend sweetie? Unless you are getting at the point that churches teach that accepting Jesus through faith is the way.......and you are saying it isn't. As far as I know......christendom teaches that ALL can have eternal life through faith in Jesus, so I'd say they teach Jesus is mercifull..

  What gets me about you my ol bud......is you have stated many times that "not all scripture is from god" What gets me is I'll bet that if you were to take all the scriptures you have quoted since being on this Forum and on H20 before that.......a good part of the N.T. would have been quoted. You use the scriptures to fit your beliefs yet also say much of scripture is not from God.

  If you were to edit your own bible to what you feel is accurate truth..........how many pages do you suppose you'd have?

  Gumby