Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic? (page 9)

StinkyPantz

Ox-Ham:

It's so rare to find a Christian that will actually debate! We agnostics/athiests jump at the opportunity!

greven

Oxham:

After being thoroughly deceived by people into believing JW's have the absolute truth I vowed I would never believe people without doing research myself.

Why would you base anyhing, like the existance of God, on faith at all? I am not saying you are wrong. Your conclusion can be valid, but should be build upon solid research, get the facts, look upon the issue from various stances, hear pro and con and then make up your conclusion.

Throwing in a wild conclusion and then stating as only reason belief, is not advisable.

'Our government is run behind the scene by three eyed, snakeskinned, "trweeerrrp!" sound making aliens weraring funny hats!!!'

'HUH? What on earth makes you think that?'

'Just my belief' / 'read it in a book somewhere' / 'Santa tolled me'

'Ah, that's ok then'

Your conclusion that there is a God could be valid, yet you should be able to give a good reason, or foundation for such a dramatic conclusion (were talking here about an extraordinary powerfull being!) . Belief alone is not a good reason: many people believe in E.T's. Some believe in fairies, others are convinced the Loch Ness monster exists. They do not become real because people believe in them. Do you believe in any of them? If not: why not? Try to find the reason why you do not believe in them and then you'll see why many people do not believe in God. --> Absense of evidence for, and plenty against.

This board is not atheist only: there are theists, agnostics, deists, atheists etc etc there are even a few JW's!!!

Hey guys be kind towards hamster! Or feel the terrible wrath bellowing up my nostrils!!! Mwuhahahah

Greven

Realist

great thread!

AlanF,

wow what an analogy!

to jump on the side of the believers for a second....atheism is also just a believe. there is no sound evidence that would allow us to state for sure that there is no deeper meaing in this universe respectively that there is no "creator".

is it likely that there is a god....not in my opinion.

expatbrit

Erm...well, no. Atheism is lack of belief. I'm an atheist because I have a lack of belief in a supernatural entity that can be defined as "God". This lack of belief is based on the lack of any convincing evidence to move to a position of belief. Lack of belief is the default state of reasoning, otherwise you would have to say that the existence of Santa Claus/the Great Pink Unicorn/fairies at the bottom of your garden/an honest politician etc etc are all definite posibilities and you should not state that they do not all exist. In other words, you end up acknowledging the possibilities of even the most ridiculous absurdities.

Expatbrit

Realist

expatbrit,

very good post! your definition is of course accurate.

however, for me everything is a matter of probabilities. is it likely that we live in the matrix? no. can i exclude the possibility? no.

same is true for god. i cannot exclude the possibility that the universe was created. do i view it as likely? certainly not!

the more facts are gathered on a subject the more accurate can the decision be. therefore the santa theory is out the window if you ask me!

Thunder Rider

Myself, I believe that God exists, but he has much more important things to do than bother with me. I have been much happier since I gave up "hope". I have taken responsibility for myself, my own actions, needs, and search for justice. Why wait on another when you can do it yourself? No expectations, no dissapointments. I am by no means pissing on the "ransom sacrifice" just allowing for the forgivness of my sins to be credited toward those that are a bit more needy. (wouldn't want those child abusers to come up short on divine forgiveness) That is tounge in cheek by the way.

My moral code is based on the "love thy god, love thy neighbor" thing, right is right. I don't make excuses for my actions good or bad and accept no excuses from others. I judge them personaly and if I find them to be less than savory of character I ignore them. My circle of influence and family is small. I keep it well gaurded, safe and as happy as possible. I choose not to rely on divine intervention to smooth my path. I got my own rake. Should god ever choose to exercise his influence on me and mine, I would request he clean his own house before he comments on mine.

Thunder

Realist

here is what huxley had in mind when he invented the term AGNOSTIC.

i agree 100% with what he said.

Huxley and the definition of Agnosticism

Huxley describes how he came to originate the term 'agnostic' as follows:

When I reached intellectual maturity, and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; a Christian or a freethinker, I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until at last I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure that they had attained a certain "gnosis" -- had more or less successfully solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble. And, with Hume and Kant on my side, I could not think myself presumptuous in holding fast by that opinion. [...]
So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of "agnostic". It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the "gnostic" of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant; and I took the earliest opportunity of parading it at our Society, to show that I, too, had a tail, like the other foxes. [Quoted in " Encylopaedia of Religion and Ethics ", 1908, edited by James Hastings MA DD]

Huxley was delighted to find that the name "agnostic" stuck; he proceeded to expand upon what he meant by it.

Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle. That principle is of great antiquity; it is as old as Socrates; as old as the writer who said, 'Try all things, hold fast by that which is good'; it is the foundation of the Reformation, which simply illustrated the axiom that every man should be able to give a reason for the faith that is in him, it is the great principle of Descartes; it is the fundamental axiom of modern science. Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him.
The results of the working out of the agnostic principle will vary according to individual knowledge and capacity, and according to the general condition of science. That which is unproved today may be proved, by the help of new discoveries, tomorrow. The only negative fixed points will be those negations which flow from the demonstrable limitation of our faculties. And the only obligation accepted is to have the mind always open to conviction. [" Agnosticism ", 1889]

That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism. [" Agnosticism and Christianity ", 1889]

rem

I'm much happier now as an atheist. One thing that is interesting is that many theists don't recognize the fact that they are atheists as well. I'm sure Hamster doesn't believe in Zeus or any of the Hindu gods. Hamster doesn't believe in millions of gods. When he understands why he doesn't believe in them then perhaps he will understand why we don't believe in his.

rem, who believes in life before death

dedalus

I don't understand why so many theists cannot admit that their faith is irrational. Irrationality doesn't always have to be pejorative. The beauty of faith -- delicately held aloft from the quotidian shuffle of the secular and the domestic, from the cold howling chasm of a quantifiable but impersonal universe -- is that, taciturn and fragile, it simply persists, somehow, gallantly folding in on itself as technology, industry, science, commerce, and politics encroach upon its space. Why debase it with pretensions of logic? Faith is emotional soul-business, worthy stuff, but those who claim that it blazes paths to syllogistic certainty, or like medicine salves a wounded world, are missing the point. There are with faith no cures or certainties -- that's the intrinsic worth of it, the courageous beauty of it, only so many “believers” don't realize it.

I don't have the kind of faith I've seen professed on this thread. But there are moments in my life that blow my heart open, like a parachute catching on air. Despite everything.

Dedalus

rem

Wow, that was beautiful, Dedalus!

rem

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

Huxley and the definition of Agnosticism

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