Through everything... do you feel that you learned soemthing?

by anotheropenviewpoint 72 Replies latest jw friends

  • nowisee
    nowisee

    welcome anotheropenviewpoint,

    i think that every experience in life teaches us something....it is up to us whether we want to take away the negative or the positive. while i was in i had quite an active social life, many good friends, lived life as honestly as i could, always tried to do the right thing, lived with integrity....

    i agree with logansrun that you felt peace and calm amid familiar surroundings....

    there is much i could say, but i just don't want to come across as someone angry and bitter to you, and i am afraid that you might interpret any negative or critical comments that way.

    i would just urge you to heed the advice in acts 17:11 and test everything. make sure that what you are being taught is really so. if you are indeed openminded you might want to read "crisis of conscience" by raymond franz and/or "answering jehovah's witnesses subject by subject" by david reed to find our why so many here have rejected the watchtower society as source of truth.

    my very best wishes,

    nowisee

  • anotheropenviewpoint
    anotheropenviewpoint

    First off, I want to thank you all for taking the time to replying to my post :) <My first one at that>

    I notice that many of the comments were "I would never go back"... funny, but that is not what I asked, I had simply asked if you felt that you had learned anything.To address the comment

    Timeline of the bible, such as 607 bce, 1914, etc. WILDLY INNACCURATE!!!!!!!!! Most pastors EDUCATED FOR AT LEAST FOUR YEARS, dubs, very little, if at all.

    Im sorry, I must not have clarified, I meant Bible Timeline, starting from Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Moses, to Israel to Jesus, to the apoostles to Revelation. I do feel that I have a good understanding of the timeline due to my studies growing up.

    Now, as I had stated, I have been disfellowshipped, (and still am) for over 5 years now... so I have had quite a bit of "deprogramming" time, time to search within myself............. of course many questions still left unanswered, but I do believe that my time away has allowed me to grow immensely.

    They leave out the social and emotional controls that this closed society enforce within the membership. They require that you buy the whole program. Leave your brain at the door.

    Addressing this, again, I am disfellowshipped right now, no one is allowed to talk to me, so no one is telling me what to do or not do.

    In my search for path, I have read many books "anti-JW" ie. "Reasoning with the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses", "Kingdom of the Cults", and Franz's books to name a few.And you know the one unified thing that I learned out of these books is ...? So 'effin what!? So what if the "prophecies" were not right, So what if they didnt get it right the first time and have changed many beliefs over time... SO 'EFFIN WHAT! I say. Because it is the ability for the people within the JW culture to adapt, be flexible, see and admit new truth when it is presented to them without a doubt. How did the whole JW org start? BIBLE STUDENTS... once anyone looses that and focuses even one ounce ont he organization itself (idonlatry) then you are no longer a student of the bible.

    I tell you what though, I have been reading alot of e-watchman.com lately... valiant man... he is a good example of looking at the scriptures with a critical eye, not focusing on the organization but the word itself.

    From a psychological point of view, it would be quite natural for you to "feel at home" where you were raised. I don't see a metaphysical shred in anything you have said. It's all psychological.

    Psychological? Maybe. But undeniable at that. I am a psychology buff myself and through analyzing these changes over and over that have moved me to change is much, much more that psychological... true physical effects have taken place. True Power, or a filling of new power has been bestowed within me. It is a presence, walking with me. Sometimes it drifts away, and other times its closer, but it is there and it is a force with strength. I have seen the world around me completely change in the last 3 months. If it were mere psychological, then the physical characteristics of people, atmosphere and relationships would not of been able to change so vastly in such a short amount of time. Moving to say the least :)

    Mind control? - FOOEY I say.... no one controls your mind but yourself. It is human nature for some to want to fit in soooo badly that they control their own minds to observe and understand thier surrondings and program themselves to think that it is a must.... but I simply do not feel that this is the intent of the organization. If you LOOK for "evidence" of mind control, youll proove to yourself all day that you found it... but I can also proove to myself that the tree outside is blue and not green.

    Lets talk about Elders for a min.
    Why does everyone put soooo much emphasis on the Elders? They are just men. They dont get paid. They are only trying to do thier best to serve a congregation..... none of them are "well off"... I can understand that many individucal elders or even small bodies of elders you may find are twisted or even corrupt, but did not Paul tell us that these men would exist? and can you not tell me that you have never met an elder or a servervant who is TRUELY serving the congregation out of pure love for others? I have, and these are great men.

    For example, this whole child abuse issue... WTF is the Elder supposed to do about it to begin with? Tell the accused, "not to do it anymore" I mean come on now... if the accuser has a case GO TO THE 'EFFIN POLICE for gods sake.

    - Looks like I have alot to say and I will save it for other discussions... but being a newbie to this board, these are some of the things that are on my mind, so thought I would share.

    Any replys are appreciated :)

    Stay open, Stay judgemental, even of yourself

  • caligirl
    caligirl

    I noticed a comment you made in your reply:

    "Because it is the ability for the people within the JW culture to adapt, be flexible, see and admit new truth when it is presented to them without a doubt."

    My thoughts on this statement are:

    God's word does not change. What the scriptures say are required of us does not change. Truth does not change.

    Why on earth should one be expected to put faith in an organization which expects one to be blown about like a kite in the wind, being "humble"( I hear that word and think gullible) enough to accept/addapt to whatever you are told is truth one week to the next or one year to the next as absolute truth and to "forget" whatever it is you were previously told was truth? I'm sorry, and please do not take offense at my opinion, but I simply cannot see any logic in that at all.

    If you feel comfortable with changing doctrine and don't see it as a huge problem, then that is your perogative. For me, the discrepancies caused screaming alarm bells from a young age and I could not continue to represent myself as a part of an organization that expects such blind, unquestioning flexibility obedience. How can someone in good conscience go out and tell people at their doors to REALLY examine thier religion and verify what they have been taught is true when one is essentially told that it is unacceptable to expose what they are teaching to the same scrutiny? You, as a witness, are to present what you are teaching your student as truth, dismantle and destroy whatever faith your current "bible student" has in their current religion, all the while knowing full well that what you are presenting to them as truth is as fickle as the wind and could change at any time. I use the term bible student very loosely because when you have a study, you are not studying the bible, you are studying books promoting whatever the current light is.

    Personally, I just cannot view any of that as a positive trait to be followed and emulated.

    By the way, welcome to the board!

  • anotheropenviewpoint
    anotheropenviewpoint

    Im gonna create a rucus with this one!

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Here is something you may not enjoy reading. My late cousin agonized over learning that perhaps JW's were not "the truth" as both of us had been taught our entire lives. She was 56 when she decided to pray to Jehovah about her dilemma.

    She asked him to please answer her prayer and help her to see what was the truth and what was not. She believed with all her heart that he answered her prayers and showed her that JW's did not have the truth after all. She began to read the Bible with a different viewpoint, not to disprove or prove anything, but just to read it and see what it was actually saying. She felt that it changed everything.

    Sadly she died in 2001 of breast cancer, disfellowshipped for daring to talk to her mother about her doubts. Her mother turned her in, and she was disfellowshipped without a hearing.

    I thought another viewpoint of praying for a sign might be of assistance to you.

  • happyout
    happyout

    Hello, anotheropenviewpoint, and welcome,

    You said "So 'effin what!? So what if the "prophecies" were not right, So what if they didnt get it right the first time and have changed many beliefs over time... SO 'EFFIN WHAT! I say. Because it is the ability for the people within the JW culture to adapt, be flexible, see and admit new truth when it is presented to them without a doubt."

    I will tell you EFFIN WHAT. Those misinterpretations of the bible caused people TO DIE. When the WTS said organ transplants were cannibalism, people DIED following that incorrect information. Familes have been torn apart because a member could not in good conscience accept a belief they knew to be wrong. People have taken their own lives because of the tremendous emotional agony following this religion brought them. People are still dying over their misinterpretation of the blood issue.

    Now, don't get me wrong. If you want to go back, and it makes you feel better, and you feel it's the right thing to do, more power to you. I happen to believe some people need religion to make them feel safe, secure, and complete. So, good for you, and best wishes for your future. BUT, don't try to whitewash or toss aside the very real issues that a lot of people have this this religion. They have legitimate reasons and feelings, just like you.

    Happyout

  • anotheropenviewpoint
    anotheropenviewpoint
    organ transplants were cannibalism, people DIED following that incorrect information

    Horse Sh*t, "incorrect information"... its a belief... individuals choose to accept that belief and adapt it to their own lives how they want. If they themselves take that "belief" to heart and do not accept a trasplant, transfusion, they died believing in something and it was thier choice to do so. In all my years I have never ever ever heard of the organization saying anything about non-transplants as long as the organ was cyled of its blood thoroughly. They even give out medical documents to Doctors drawing out these proceedures.

    All I am hearing is a bunch of emotional CRAP. C-R-A-P, crap.

    I joined this board for various reasons, and trust me, trying to convert someone else in thier thinking is not one of them. Per my username, I am truely looking to find an individual or group of people who do have open and judgemental views that can debate a subject with facts.

    Look for more of my post... I plan to stir up the whole pot!

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic
    Through the gripes,.... Through the pokes and making fun of....

    Do you feel as though you did learn something while you were there through.... ?

    Definitely. The Theocratic Ministry School was life-changing for me as it taught me public speaking.

    The door-to-door work taught me how to knock on any door, for any reason.

    Being a JW taught me not to be ashamed of who I am. People can take me or leave me. I am who I claim to be. Whether people accept me or not is their problem, not mine.

    All of these things have proven invaluable.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    its a belief... individuals choose to accept that belief and adapt it to their own lives how they want.

    It wasn't a "belief", it was an absolute rule from Jehovah God, spoken thru and enforced by his mouthpiece on earth, the F&DS. One stood to lose his family and community and worse, his relationship with god, if one did not accept this rule. Yeah, you bet it became your belief, if you wanted to keep your world turning.

    In all my years I have never ever ever heard of the organization saying anything about non-transplants as long as the organ was cyled of its blood thoroughly.

    Bah! You were not a witness of age to notice then, at the time that rule was in place. And the org has never to my knowledge commented on the organ being "cyled (cycled?) of it's blood thoroughly". If they have commented, how par-for-the-course crazy of them. What the hell does that mean anyway? Organs are full of blood at time of removal.

  • anotheropenviewpoint
    anotheropenviewpoint

    Sounds like someone needs to rewatch the video that they released on blood transfusion....

    HOLY MOTHER OF GOD - Do you guys even pay attention or just gripe?

    Again, emotional crap... looking for someone real

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