Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon 109 Replies latest jw friends

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  LoveUniHateExams

  @SBF - well, let's exercise some common sense ...

  Scotland chose to remain in the UK in a once-in-a-lifetime referendum five and a half years ago. This result must be respected.

  Anyone can clearly see that it's a bit too early to start talking about a second IndyRef right now.

  First of all, the UK must leave the EU, with all the trade stuff needing to be done and dusted ('Brexit').

  So, let's see ... the first IndyRef was in 2014.

  How about having a second one in 2025 or 2030? <--- this seems reasonable to me.
  
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  slimboyfat

  Let’s exercise some common sense, you can’t keep a country in a union against its will. How is that going to play out? Hold Scotland hostage long enough and it will change its mind? Really?
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  Earnest

  Didn't that work with the United Kingdom? Oh, never mind.
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Hold Scotland hostage long enough - Lol

  Scotland isn't being held hostage. The SNP and other anti-English tossers need to respect the 2014 IndyRef result, it's as simple as that.

  BTW how do we know if the SNP will respect a second IndyRef result if it goes against them for a second time? (they're not respecting the first)
  
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  slimboyfat

  A majority of Scots now want independence and an even larger majority believe the Scottish government has a mandate for a new referendum. Yet some in the neighbouring country think they have the right to tell Scotland “now is not the time”. If that’s not being kept against our will what is it?

  Some disreputable unionists throw around “anti English” hoping it will stick. Independence supporters I know are pro English as well as being in favour of Scotland ruling itself. The two are quite compatible. Ironically it’s unionists who tend to be narrow minded anti Europeans.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  @SBF ...

  The SNP are treating the Scottish electorate as if they were a bunch of school children. It's actually rather pathetic.

  Scottish people are better than that - they are grown adults who recognise that choices and votes have consequences.

  They understand that the 2014 result must be respected for the time being.
  
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  slimboyfat

  The SNP have won five landslides in a row. 53% of Scots believe they have a mandate for a new referendum. And now majority of Scots support independence.

  But Scotland should defer to your opinion on when they can choose their own future? Dae ye aye?
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  Jehalapeno

  Does Scotland have its own parliament?

  If so, in what way do they not rule themselves?

  (I'm a Texican, so I'm genuinely asking these questions because I'm ignorant to the subject matter, but am interested in the subject matter and want to educate myself as to these details.)
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Does Scotland have its own parliament? - Scotland has a devolved parliament, granted by Westminster.

  The Scottish electorate voted to remain within the UK in 2014.

  The devolved parliament isn't enough for the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP), who want to leave the UK and then re-join the EU (some 'independence', eh, they just want to trade one political union for another).

  As it stands, tax-payers south of the Scottish border pay Scottish students' university fees and free eye care for all Scots north of the border.

  Yet the SNP aren't happy with this arrangement.

  They'd rather disrespect the 2014 IndyRef result and have Scotland leave the UK, then put another EU membership referendum to the Scottish electorate, re-join the EU and become the EU's dumping ground for lots of third-world immigrants, legal and illegal. <--- weird, huh?
  
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  slimboyfat

  Unionists say that they pay for Scottish services, but they somehow conveniently forget decades worth of oil revenue from Scotland that paid for Westminster spending nearly 50 years. The same oil revenue that has made Norway near enough the richest country in the world, Westminster instead has frittered away on neoliberal privatisations, wars in the Middle East, weapons of mass destruction, and propping up London banks. And somehow Scotland is supposed to be grateful that, instead of an oil fund like Norway, Scotland is supposedly “given” free tuition fees and prescriptions, by Westminster, presumably out of the generosity of their hearts. The amazing thing is some unionists actually believe it! Oil revenues funded the so-called Thatcher revolution (1980s transfer of wealth from the many to the few) which would have been impossible otherwise.

  And it’s a majority of Scots who support independence, not simply SNP. Denying a right over our future insults all of Scotland, not just one or two independence parties.