Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

by Simon 109 Replies latest jw friends

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  Giles Gray

  " Should we stop having elections in Scotland if it doesn’t matter what we vote for."

  Certainly... if what is being voted for is casting aside a recent 'once in a lifetime' democratic vote.

  " Scotland does respect democracy. It voted to stay in the UK in 2014 and it did stay in the UK. That is democracy."

  I don't call abiding by a democratic vote for two years and then casting it aside at the first sign of change respecting democracy, especially when the vote was known to be once in a lifetime.

  Democracy would be respecting the results of that referendum for the appropriate term.

  "Scotland did not vote to give up any right over its future no matter what happens."

  No one is making that assertion. However, the SNP doesn't have carte blanch to change its mind at every whim.

  Scotland made a democratic vote and needs to honour the results of that democratic system.
• 

  notsurewheretogo

  Also there were plenty people who voted SNP who do not want to break up the Union.

  Cofty...exactly...25% of the 45% who voted SNP did so to tactically to vote against Brexit and the Tories and independence was not the reason they voted.
  
  
• 

  Simon

  SNP won more support in Scotland than the Tories won in England. Does Johnson have a mandate?

  What on earth are you on about?

  The SNP got the result they did because there's hardly anyone there and of those, only a few bothered to vote, because what they were voting for wasn't what you're trying to twist it into - when it was, they voted clearly against it.

  The number of people who voted for the Tories was 10x more and in % terms the tories got +47% to the SNP 3.9%

  The SNP don't get to decide jack-shit other than what time the libraries open and close.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  ADDENDUM:

  majority of the UK people voted for parties supporting either Remain or second referendum

  Q: why are you lumping Remain and Second Referendum together?!

  A: intellectual dishonesty.

  Go and add up the number of votes for: parties with Brexit on their manifesto; parties with Second Referendum on their manifesto; and parties with Remain on their manifesto. Which has the most votes, Brexit, 2nd Referendum or Remain?

  If you want to make it about Brexit vs Remain, you must not include votes for Labour as votes for Remain.

  F**k me, the cheek of some people! XD
  
• 

  slimboyfat

  It’s the claim of right all over again.

  The Tories urged people to vote for them to stop indyref2. They lost half their seats and SNP won a landslide. Take a hint. You can delay democracy but you can’t stop it forever. The current Westminster parliament may favour imposing unionism on Scotland, but history and democracy is on our side.

  Support for independence not going up? I’ve heard so many people Scottish unionists flip, in real life and online. Even those who remain unionists, they recognise democracy and a mandate for a new referendum when they see it. It will be very interesting to see the next opinion poll for independence. (Bookmark)

  65% in Scotland voted for parties that accept the right of Scots to call a referendum.

  http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/12/65-of-scots-voted-for-parties-that.html?m=1
  
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  
  
• 

  slimboyfat

  One step at a time. The 2019 election gave a mandate for another referendum, not for independence. That will be decided in the referendum.
• 

  cofty

  It will be very interesting to see the next opinion poll for independence

  YouGov poll just out a few days ago = 44%

  Once the UK leaves the EU at the end of next month an independent Scotland would be stranded outside the EU with a huge deficit and no chance of getting back into Europe without agonising austerity measures to balance the economy.

  It will be interesting to see if Big Eck's criminal trial for multiple charges of rape will taint the image of the SNP
  
  
• 

  notsurewheretogo

  You can delay democracy but you can’t stop it forever

  Exactly...the democratic expression in 2014 was Scotland remain in the UK.

  Last Thursday it was the democratic expression of Scotland that 56% voted for pro-union parties.

  The 2019 election gave a mandate for another referendum

  No, no it did not when the majority voted for pro-union parties. Seats do not matter, vote numbers count.

  56% voted for pro-union parties...that is a majority. There is no mandate for another referendum.
  
  

  Once the UK leaves the EU at the end of next month an independent Scotland would be stranded outside the EU with a huge deficit and no chance of getting back into Europe without agonising austerity measures to balance the economy.

  Why does every single SNP or Nat not see this and never comments when it is raised? 5 years I've raised this and never had an answer from any SNP supporter or nat.
  
  
• 

  Giles Gray

  "...democracy is on our side."

  The irony.

  The SNP wanted to overturn a democratic vote (that went against them) two years after a referendum over Scotland had just taken place. They also opposed and tried to overturn the results of the UK's democratic vote to exit the EU in 2016.

  They disregard two democratic decisions and then it's claimed that democracy is on their side.

  It is more accurate to say that the SNP respects democracy... but only if it suits their agenda. The rest of the time they treat democracy with utter contempt.

  I've never seen such a snivelling bunch of sore losers.