by BitterTruth 107 Replies latest jw friends
BT,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the Society has quoted Will Durant several times.
This thread has been fascinating to me. I read C.O. Jonnson's and Franz' books. Could you elaborate on YOUR thoughts about the "second coming"?
Edited by - dubby on 18 July 2000 11:32:55
BT,
I don't know, man. This is starting to sound too prophetic for me. These are strong words you're using, singling out this forum. You base these thoughts on Rev. 21:3? Are you placing yourself in a prominant position in this new organization? Could this be another misapplication, that of which the WTS is famous for? Obviously I'm very skeptical.
Hi Dubby:
BT...Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the Society has quoted Will Durant several times....This thread has been fascinating to me. I read C.O. Jonnson's and Franz' books. Could you elaborate on YOUR thoughts about the "second coming"?
Will Durant....that's not surprising...The WTS has written on numerous topics over the years...Raymond Franz said that most of the info that he found which inadvertently and inevitably condemned the WTS on many topics was right there in the Bethel Library...just waiting for him to read...a lot of it and he used it in his books.
Matthew 24th chapter...elaborate???...Yes, I would be happy to...
But, before I do this, let me just say something at this point...before
I START "ELABORATING" ON MATTHEW 24:
(and subsequently...you guys start throwing tomatoes at me...:-) )
We recall, Jesus spoke of gaining the kingdom, and entrance into it by describing it and likening it to "finding a pearl of high value..." -- Matthew 13:45, 46
Only two verses here...but much meaning...much is said within those two verses...
1. First, the man must have a keen, keen appreciation for "sacred things," in this instance, in that he realizes this is a "pearl of high value,"...a sense of appreciation must be found deep within the person...else his search will be "fruitless,"...
He must indeed place a HIGH VALUE upon finding such a "pearl," in this day and age....some people (JWs) don't...he must be different.
Some wanted the WTS to do it FOR THEM...the easy way out. He must be different...this is personal search...no one can do it for you...you must do it alone...(husbands can't save wives, and vice versa...everyone must do this for themselves...)
2. Then, the man must really "search for it." Leave no stone unturned...really "grope for God, and He [God] will LET HIMSELF BE FOUND BY YOU."...Sweat, dig...work..."
3. Then, once he "finds" the pearl of high value he must "hid it" to make sure it will be there when he gets back...he must "secure it."
4. Then, he must "purchase" the land...it is extremely costly...but he really wants the pearl...sooooooo....he sinks EVERYTHING HE OWNS into the land...it costs all he has...he is broke after this "purchase of land." It cost him everything that he has to get it.
5. Then, he can announce to any and all, that the "pearl" has been found on "his property," thus, it belongs to him...he has finally "gained ownership of the costly pearl."
All the time, Satan, your enemy, does not want you to accomplish this...so he does everything in his power from keeping you from taking the journey, finding the pearl, hiding the pearl, purchasing the land, and gaining the ownership of the land and the pearl found on the land.
But...he must "overcome" Satan...He must "conquer" Satan...your primary enemy.
The WTS DID NOT "Conquer" Satan...he "overreached" them...a sobering thought indeed.
He is certainly a worthy adversary...no question...
So, this is the "formula" Jesus left us, for gaining everlasting life into God's Kingdom...this is the "formula."
But we must ask ourselves, are we "up to the task," up to the journey that LIES AHEAD OF US....it does lie ahead of all of us...because the WTS...does not possess this information...They do not possess it....but....but its still out there for the taking...and Jehovah God is out there too, monitoring this WHOLE SITUATION...monitoring the whole situation to watch, and see how we are going to react...
Are we going home and have a big party...adopt this attitude...
"...THE WTS IS DEAD...yeaaaahhh...LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL.....let's live it up for tomorrow we may die" ..."
or will we search....sweat...work for it...keeping searching till we find it...the "pearl," even AFTER WE LEAVE WTS LAND...even after...
Thats what Jehovah wants to know.
Remember, the scripture said..."if you search for it, like gold and silver..." then....then...you will find the very knowledge of God..."
That's the formula...highly value it....search for it...dig for it...find it...hide/secure it...fight for it...purchase it...and you will win.
BT,I don't know, man. This is starting to sound too prophetic for me. These are strong words you're using, singling out this forum. You base these thoughts on Rev. 21:3? Are you placing yourself in a prominant position in this new organization? Could this be another misapplication, that of which the WTS is famous for? Obviously I'm very skeptical.
"Prominent position,"...after seeing what JAH is going to do the G.B. and WTS, my personally knowing what the aftermath will be ..."prominence" is not my game at all...I personally seek no prominence...if I prove to be a "voice crying out in the wilderness," then...then...you guys need not EVER KNOW ME PERSONALLY...ever...ever, ever meet me in person....never...its not necessary...
So I have gained nothing from this experience...and I plan to gain nothing...man can give me nothing...only God...so, I'm just "passing on" what I been taught...it was taught to me, and I just pass it on...but only to those who ask me...only those...
But I can tell you one thing...I felt the exact same way you do at present, when I discovered the "errors" of the WTS...exactly the same way...this is a natural feeling. And you are right, my words, are extremely strong...because I talk like the WTS, (a false prophet)...proven
...but, I talk like a "prophet" too...speak as though I know what I'm talking about, and base it upon the Bible...talk of the future even...the future, speak of things like that, and say these types of things: "the Bible says this, and the prophecy indicates that," and so on. This is completely distasteful to any leaving the WTS.
They would prefer I didn't bring up the Bible...
Who in their right mind would want to hear that kind of talk, when they JUST LEFT THE WTS...who? Nobody!
It would be a strain, even to listen to someone say those words...
But I finally, decided that it would be better to "strian...to strain...to know was better than NOT TO KNOW, I thought...so I did...Because to Jehovah God,
NO STRAIN MEANS NO GAIN, that is, into the Kingdom..."no gain entrance" into the kingdom...we must then do as Jesus said, "exert yourselves VIGOROUSLY"...to open that door of entrance...strain...
And that's where we are now...in the STRAINING PERIOD...
And Jesus said, "many would not be able" ...that's ...able...able...not have the strength, to complete the task...
Because they refuse to "strain....strain."
Now we can elaborate...
BT
Jehovah's Witnesses, God's Name People -- Destined to "Fall" and Be "Restored" According to Bible Prophecy -- Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20
Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 18 July 2000 13:56:21
HI ALL,
As the saying goes "words are cheap", that's my feeling with this thread. I'm asking myself why should the future of the WTS be any different to the past 120+ years? Change occuring, yes, but
practically inconcievable to the greater number,
coming about pain stakingly slow and forever gradual. The organization doesn't suffer only the individuals whose living days are counted.So save yourselves and if you can and any that will listen to you.If you cannot leave consider it all joy to endure the tactics of this cult, for the sake of your brainwashed family and friends. Enjoy life the best you can given your lot.
Martini, who finds far fewer words to predict the worst.
Martini, I am so happy to see you. I am in agreement with your reply. Change will be gradual-live with it or move on. Whatever the reason may be that each of us stay-make the best and most use
of the time we have.
Seven
Martini, Hey! Been a while, nice to hear from you. We have new players, with many words, have you noticed? And my husband thinks I talk a lot. Ha!
7 (I've copied Friend's opening). I read your post as to where some of the regulars are - but you didn't ask about me? Don't fret - I have no nite life - just me, my Honey, coffee, dog, & screen. Oh Lord, just shoot me now.
waiting
Edited by - waiting on 18 July 2000 18:3:2
Hi Dubby:
This thread has been fascinating to me. I read C.O. Jonnson's and Franz' books. Could you elaborate on YOUR thoughts about the "second coming"?
I was thinking of starting a new thread, dealing with the subject of "Christ's Second Coming." I will probably put it under "Bible Research Forum," if we veer too much off subject on this thread.
CHRIST'S SECOND COMING -- RE-EXAMINED
First of all, we'd have to say, that we did receive some correct information from the WTS, even on this subject of Christ's second coming...some few but important points.
The real problem is trying to decipher the Bible passage as being Type, and/or Greater anti/type...or both.
In other words, is the prophecy, bifurcated...two pronged in thought, content and meaning.
The WTS said yes...
But the preterists, said No!
The latter, insist that Christ returned in the 1st century only. And they feel they have scriptures to prove such.
The WTS insists that Jesus did not return in the first century because, his second "coming" or "return" is intricately tied in with "Armageddon."
However, just allowing Jesus to show up at the end, just before Armageddon does nothing for the WTS, in terms of his "appointing" them to some position of authority and power over an already established church and congregation...established back during CT Russell's time.
So...to help facilitate this understanding, the WTS "created" a two (2) stage "coming" of sorts, an (a) and (b) "coming", wherein they call the first one the "invisible [parousia] or presence which occurred in 1914, and the second one...the second "coming" [erchomai] occurs before Armageddon.
It was during his "presence" or shortly after the first of the 2 "second comings," that Jesus
(1919) awarded the WTS the position and promotion of being appointed over "all of his belongings." This is a promotion, and reward for "feeding the household" or "Domestics" so well in his absence.
So, Jesus comes into Kingdom power, and shortly appoints them over the "belongings," his earthwide interests.
We will analyze the above viewpoints, from the scriptures.
BT
Jehovah's Witnesses, God's Name People -- Destined to "Fall" and Be "Restored" According to Bible Prophecy -- Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20
Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 18 July 2000 18:36:8
Hi Dubby:
I have decided to move this new topic, start a new thread created on the "Bible Research" Forum.
Thanks
BT
Hi Martini:
As the saying goes "words are cheap", that's my feeling with this thread. I'm asking myself why should the future of the WTS be any different to the past 120+ years?...
They carry God's Name upon themselves.
Does the fact that the JWs actually carried God Name upon themselves, mean anything to you?
Do you think it means anything to God?
BT
Hi all,
I thought this thread was worthy of a second go-round, particularly for the newbies who come aboard since it was first publishjed and for whom H20 is nothing more than ``acqua pura.'' Some of the names of the contributors are ``blast from the past,'' seldom or never never from these days. Of these, I wish them well.
Can one of the more erudite among us please define ``critical mass'' once and for all?
Best regards from Two One Five.
