C.O. Reports: JWs/WTS "Reach Critical Mass...

by BitterTruth 107 Replies latest jw friends

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  Pathofthorns

  Kangloo, do yourself a favour and pick up Ray Franz's books Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. Spend some time doing some reading and reasearching and understanding your religion. There are some good websites around too.

  When you understand where it came from and all of it's doctrines, then you will have a better understanding of where you are going and where you will end up.

  Compare what you read with what is written in the Proclaimer's book. Get a hold of old WT's and verify what you read. I would spend some time privately reading and thinking. How you think about things will then change almost on a weekly basis the more you begin to understand. Try to avoid discussing these things with active JW's. They simply will not understand.

  This is somewhat of a scary thing but if you are the sort of person that is truly interested in truth, you do what you have to do and are not afraid to do it.

  Path
• 

  xjw_b12

  Kagloo. It sounds like you have a lot of soul searching and praying to do. Thanks to Room 215 for moving this post back to the top. I missed it while I was on vacation. I lurk here often, but post rarely, but I have to reply in this case. Re your relationship with Jehovah. I can attest that it can only get better. I can sooo relate to your questions and feelings. I went through the same myself. Anyways, I can only encourage you as others here have done, to read Crisis of Conscience. This will only wet your appetite for In Search of Christian Freedom. If you need additional information, or want to do further research, and or talk to someone who was in similar circumstances, email me and I will put you in touch with my dear old dad. He was in the org most of his life [ 72 yrs old now ], MS, Elder, PO, but he left 5 yrs ago, but not before he did an extensive amount of research. He has WTS publications dating back to the early 1900's, as well publications form the original Bible Students, and he is well versed in the subject. But most importantly he genuinely loves to help people who are floundering. So drop me a line, if you are so inclined, and I will forward your email to him. He lives in the Vancouver B.C. area, and he would love to help.

  DDS email [email protected]
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  wolfgang

  interesting reading....... and another example of babylon the great falling..another false religion.............where the hell is god guys?
• 

  ozziepost

  Wow! This is a good day, after all!

  I haven't got much useful to add but I would like to express that Seeker4 has been one of my personal favorite posters both on H20 and here, too. So thanks Seeker4 for the re-run.

  Like Farkel, I miss Friend too!

  Anyway, may I join in welcoming Kagloo.

  Kagloo: I must add "hear, hear" to Room215's comments to you. Welcome aboard, brother.

  Cheers, Ozzie
• 

  abbagail

  LOL! @ Farkel

  Critical Mass: It would also be the last religious service our current Roman Catholic Pope conducts before he croaks.

  And to MegaDude who wrote:

  It's like fighting for control of the Titanic.

  Yeah, why bother to fight for control? Why not just sit back and watch it steer head-on right into the giant iceberg! POW! Gloooooooop! There she goes! "And she will never be found again." (Rev. 18:21)

  BitterTruth wrote back in 2000:

  This "newly defined ecclesiastical institution of overseers" which hopes to "form a freshly washed body of Christians from every nation and race" is what will attempt to bring this about. They today, number about 1/3 of the organization's leadership, on a worldwide scale. And the are "mad as hell and aint gonna take it anymore..." ..... A Watchtower Society POWER STRUGGLE/TAKEOVER on a worldwide scale is next to occur...a major attempt at it is shortly before...so...Stay tuned and don't touch that dial! BT

  So who is this Bitter Truth person who posted this info in the first place? Why doesn't he give us a current update on these "heavy hitters" within the org and what they are doing currently? The original post was from around July 2000. That's two entire years, with two annual meetings occurring since then, and no "overthrow" yet.

  BT also had written back in 2000:

  Now here's the key portion the reader comments on...he continues... "On the other hand, on page 31 of the new Isiah book, what I read there gave me a momentary shudder. It sounded just like the boys in the writing dept were suggesting a coup!"

  Not having a copy of the Isaiah book, does anybody know what this person was referring to? Thanks.

  Friend had written back in 2000:

  "The day the Society states that its teachings hold precedent over the Bible will be the day that 99% of Jehovahs Witnesses leave off association with the Society. I fully realize that that latter statement can be countered, but I dont think successfully so; at least Ive never seen it."

  In answer to that, I would offer this WT quote which was on the SilentLambs Guestbook just the other day. I'd say the society 21 years ago already did such a thing: WT 12/1/81 p.27 "Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do."

  And what happened to H20? I haven't been around long enough to know the whole story. I was under the (erroneous?) impression it had shut down or something. Is that true? If so, why did they shut down? If it's still around, is it still being run by "heavy hitters" within the org? What are these "heavy hitters" up to these days? I remember an email B.Bowen sent around a few months back denouncing all those current elders, etc. who were sitting on their duffs and doing nothing. Bill asked them in the email if they were going to stand up for what is right nor not? If there really are 1/3 who are "united" against the GB, are they lined up behind B.Bowen and the SilentLambs?

  Intereresting thread nonetheless! It was a great read.

  And welcome, too, Kagloo!

  Grits

  Edited by - Grits on 28 August 2002 10:23:28
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  Martini

  Firstly I would like to say a BIG hello to some "men/women of old" like Seven, Path, Red and last but never least Waiting. Sure would be nice to have a GREAT Apostofest some day!

  Anyway this topic again, good god surely with all that's been written about the 'WTS FATE' someone will make a blockbuster movie some day! '

  "THE GREATEST FRAUD EVER TOLD, The day the WTS spoke" or some other synonymous title.

  Complete with sequels to time everlasting.

  KAGLOO mark my words the journey you have embarked upon is a circle. What many will tell you is that you have to come full cirlce so to speak and then you will understand all things religious.

  For many JW's the cirlce goes something like this. My version anyway,

  Seeking the true "GOD", QUESTIONS, Finding the "'true"' God, QUESTIONS, Seeking the true "GOD", QUESTIONS, Finding "a god", QUESTIONS Seeking for "GOD", Finding 'no god", QUESTIONS, Seeking no more for 'god'.

  Everyone is at different degrees of understanding somewhere between 0 and 360.

  So expect that the journey may be a long and tiresome one. Mine is ongoing so I'm taking a break.

  Wishing you health,

  Martini
• 

  Robdar

  Hi Big Tex,

  Nah, I am not referring to you. I am speaking to "Bitter Truth". Sorry for the mix up.

  Many Blessings,

  Robyn
• 

  Nathan Natas

  First, thanks to Room215 for bringing this discussion up for review.

  Is "BitterTruth" one of the authors of "THE REPORT"? Is he "TWMC"? If so, it may be timely that this has re-surfaced now, just a little while before TWMC is supposed to re-appear with volume 2 of THE REPORT available for sale.

  I'd like to take a stab at "critical mass" if I may. In nuclear physics, critical mass is defined as "the quantity of fissionable material of a particular shape that is just sufficient to sustain a nuclear chain reaction." In other words, it is the minimum amount of fissionable stuff you need to make a nuclear bomb.

  Used in the phrase "the problems of the WTS have reached critical mass," it means that the problems have reached a point beyond which recovery is imposible.

  I find BitterTruth's ideas interesting: he seems to believe that Jehovah exists as the creator of the universe and not just as a sock-puppet operated by the various doddering diapered old fruit-bags on the GB, and he seems to believe that the WTS is (or was) in a special relationship with this real-life Jehovah and that Jehovah will punish the WTS for their failure and revitalize His people.

  I wonder if BitterTruth has a timeline in mind for when this is supposed to occur, or if he'll just leave it to an indefinite "someday" in the future.

  I also wonder, since BitterTruth made the point about the Albigensians of the 12th century - what part did THEY play in the Divine Plan, since they appeared on stage during the intermission, when nothing was happening?

  It's every bit as fascinating as a well-played game of Dungeons And Dragons, whith imaginary characters and situations springing to life in the mind's eye.

  I can hardly wait for the story to resume. I'd like to suggest Fred Hall for the role of Darth Taze Russell.

  Edited by - Nathan Natas on 28 August 2002 11:10:51
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  bjc2012

  Hi Nathan:

  I wonder if BitterTruth has a timeline in mind for when this is supposed to occur, or if he'll just leave it to an indefinite "someday" in the future.

  Here is the information you've requested about a "timeline" for events. It was posted October 6, 2001.

  ------------------------snip---------------------------

  In my writings, under the name of "MDS", I personally have responded to questions raised by various persons frequenting JW Discussion boards over the years. I've been asked me a number of questions, about dates, when the "1,260 days" of prophesying of the "Two Witnesses" would begin. I have obliged such individuals by providing inquiring individuals with the actual the beginnings, time-frames and lengths of

  (a) The "Measuring" Period of Revelation 11:1, which precedes
  (b) The "1260 days" of prophesying of the Two Witnesses, and
  (c) The "Trampling" period of "42 months" upon "Jerusalem," and
  (d) The "3 1/2 days" of shame and disgrace for the "Two Witnesses"

  each running approximately 3 1/2 years for each period, starting with Spring of the year of 1996 which begins the "Measuring" period of Revelation 11:1...the Fall of 1999 for beginning of "1260 days" of "prophesying" of Two Witnesses...next period, the Spring of the year of 2003 starts the "trampling of Jerusalem", and finally, Fall of 2006 for the beginning of the "3 1/2 days" of death and shame of the "Two Witnesses," inflicted by the "Small Horn" of Daniel 8:23.

  I have provided the "details"...as Acts 13:40, 41 shows.

  ...Further, I also pointed forward to the date of October 7, 2001 which marks 70 years of "Declaring the Name" of God (Psalms 105:1-3) for modern-day "Israel," after which Jehovah God carries out whats outlined in,

  Isaiah 19:2-4 where He, Himself, would bring about "break" in the brotherhood and harmony of God's Name People, JWs as a nation. It is Jehovah God, who is to bring total "chaos" ...a "break in the brotherhood," spoken of in Zechariah 11:14 among JWs as a nation.

  In Isaiah 19:2-4, it is Jehovah God that says, His Name People, have become..."Egyptians", in His sight. Jehovah is the One, that will set or "goad"..."Egyptian against Egyptian", in the kingdom halls of JWs worldwide...after the date of October 7, 2001. Yes, the "love of the greater number," will indeed, "cool off." -- Matthew 24:12

  The JWs as a spiritual nation are, spiritually speaking to God, foreigners to Him, spiritual "Egyptians" to God. And thus, they will be treated as such, as one "who do not bear the Name of God," as Isaiah 63:18, 19 shows.

  Isaiah 19:2-4 also speaks of the "hard master," the King of the North, the "small horn", and his coming to the "land of decoration" of Daniel 11:40, 41. His rise to power is mentioned for us at,

  Daniel 8:23 shows his "intrigue," the "master of intrigue," according to the NIV. It tells us about his move or ascension to power, TIMEWISE exactly as the spiritual "rebels", goes off and "works toward a completion," ... all at the same time...occurring around the same time, October of 2001.

  So, before all of this happens, in conjuction with all of these horrific events and happenings, Jehovah God, sends us help.

  THE "RETURN OF CHRIST" AND WHY "ELIJAH COMES FIRST"

  ----------------------End of quote-----------------

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=10030&site=3

  Hope this helps.

  bjc
• 

  Salud

  Many fine comments here...

  Kagloo, take it slow. Your are on the right path though. The many questions you have will be answered, often times though with new questions you never even conceived. Look it as a journey, as an awakening. Don't concern yourself with what Jehovah thinks at this time, if he is the loving God you believe he is then he should understand. And to quote others by all means do not discuss it with other witnesses, they just simply will not understand and worst just cause you much grief.

  In the end you have to arrive at what you believe. Many people on this board believe many things from the existence of Jehovah as Almighty God, to Jesus being God, to just their being a creator, others are agnostic, and others still not believing in God at all. I am not promoting one agenda over another, other than the fact everyone has a freedom to believe what he/she wishes. How is that for a foreign thought?

  At the risk of repeating myself and others here please read Ray Franz's book. For someone like yourself it will do you a world of good. Good luck and my e-mail is open.

  Salud