Does prophesy negate free will?

Tim207

Not sure if this is in the right subject but here it goes. I’ve asked this question to a few elders and bethelites but they don’t seem to understand or like the question. To start off we have to agree that Jehovah is all powerful. Next we have to agree that the whole point of this system according to JW is to prove who has the right to rule. we humans have a say in this by using our free will. Therefore free will is basically the only thing that we as humans have power over in the universal play. Next if jehovah uses a prophesy to see your future does that remove your free will?

for example say god prophesies you will drink a hot pot of Koolaid tomorrow morning instead of coffee. Can you go against that prophesy and drink coffee or do you lose your free will and your future becomes written by that prophesy?

the only replies I’ve gotten are examples like Jonah who tried to go against not a prophesy but a command and the end result was the same: what god said happened.

Did anyone who had a prophesy written against them have a choice in the matter?

waton

In 1457 days there will be a darkened Sun over upstate NY. that is dictated by the laws of nature.

There are no prophecies written against anyone, only consequences of certain actions, and unforeseen circumstances.

JoenB75

Tim207, there is no free will. The human will is subject to many things. I dont think the human will stands any chance against God's Judges 14:4, Ephesians 1:11, Revelation 17:17 etc ☺️

Half banana

Prophecy is part of the ancient desire for omens and magic abilities in soothsayers to enlighten us. Old Mother Shipton's prophecy from the sixteenth century predicting the end of the world for 1881 had people in despair of anticipation in England. Suspiciously close in time to the prophecy shenanigans of CT Russell I think.... (1874/1878 and first Watchtower 1879)

People always would like to know the future but there is no possible way since we cannot time travel. At best we can weigh the evidence and make a guess with the observations of prevailing courses of events -- but no one can make a useful prophecy of the future with a certainty of its happening.

As Waton points out^, educated star gazers could predict eclipses so astrologers would feel entitled to wield authority in the department of prophecy, after all apparent evidence for their mystical ability was at hand!

There are no unambiguous USEFUL prophecies to be found in the Bible.

With "holy" literature, the reader is conned into thinking that it is all honest text but alas most Bible prophecies are those done and dusted so to speak, cleverly written after the manifest fulfillment!

Prophecy cannot negate free will as it is merely a superstition.

Half banana

Would the person who negated my post like to supply evidence to the contrary of what I said?

Tim207

Thank you all for your replies but you are all taking the side of an atheist not of someone who believes in an all powerful god. What I am trying to do is see if in a world with an all powerful god and possibly all knowing does that remove the idea of free will. Kind of going towards the idea of preditermination if god is both all powerful and all knowing if he sees what we do before we do it are we choosing to do it?

Pete Zahut

Does Prophecy Negate Free Will?

Other than Jesus and Kind David, I don't recall there being any prophesies about individuals where they were in control of the outcome. It seems like the prophesies were more all encompassing of a time period or a nation or mankind in general.

Similar to what you're talking about is the question I always had in regard to the outcome of things foretold.

What would have happened if (500 eg) people would have listened to Noah, would there have been room on the Ark for them? If everyone living within the sound of Noah's voice would have listened, would God still have needed to flood the Earth and kill all the animals for some reason?

What if everyone listened to Jesus back in the day? Since it was prophesied that he had to die in order to "buy back" the life Adam lost for us, would he really still have had to die and would it have been a sacrificial death? If not, since he was perfect, would he still be alive today? If it was a foregone conclusion that Jesus had to die, why are we so sad about it?

What if the JW's today took out television Ads all over the world and millions upon millions of people became JW's. Would there still have to be a Great Tribulation? Would Armageddon still have to take place? Or since prophecy says it will happen, is it a foregone conclusion that mankind is doomed and there's no way out of it?

In this sense, it's seems mankind's freewill is negated.

goingthruthemotions

If you're a bible believer. accordign to romans chapter 9, there is no such thing as free will.

You're screwed from the get go. My belief is meta-physical, we do have free will and my creator is a loving

and forgiving creator.

Screw this CULT

waton

you are all taking the side of an atheist not of someone who believes in an all powerful god.

T207. even the "god "that bible writers have dreamed up, is not all powerful, he can not lie, and is bound by the law of Moses, so he has to supply himself with a human sacrifice, that never entered his mind.

No, some of us bible sceptics accept the possibility, that the creator is so vastly different from us, that he does not have to fiddle with the universe, to have the outcome that he did not want to have. New Scientist Magazine April 2020: "Even a computer the size of the universe can’t predict everything"Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2239097-even-a-computer-the-size-of-the-universe-cant-predict-everything/#ixzz6JUDPt4jN

BereanThinker7

This used to trouble me until I realized my concept of Yahweh and time was inaccurate and I was limiting God to an experience of time like that a human has. A better understanding of the relativity of time and things like gravitational lensing made it click for me.

So granted this is a presuppositional argument. Time is an actual dimension not just humans measurement of it. If there is an architect to all things created the creator himself is not stuck in and limited to that dimension. So when Yahweh looks at time or "steps into it" on our level he can still see all things past/future/present concurrently. Therefore when he prophesies something will happen it as good as if you did it/are doing it/will do it. You have already chosen your actions at that point in time and he is reporting back what he has seen to prove His glory and power that he Truly is God. Your free will was never touched, you made your choice.

Does prophesy negate free will?

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