Does prophesy negate free will?

by Tim207 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • waton
    waton
    the creator himself is not stuck in and limited to that dimension. So when Yahweh looks at time or "steps into it" on our level he can still see all things past/future/present concurrently.

    BT: The difference between us and a possible creator is that we, in our universe, move into time. during that travel, the "now "we live in, is of zero duration. The past exists only in form of traces of messages moving out into the future. Everything we see is really already gone. Our future deeds do not exist yet. "god" is already in the eternal future, waiting for us to travel toward him in time, so:

    time will tell.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Another similar question is: Does God's absolute foreknowledge negate free will.

    If God was causing your actions and reactions, then the answer of course is, "Yes".

    If not, you do have at least a measure of free will.

  • inbetween09
    inbetween09

    Tim, I asked myself the same question, particularly regarding the betrayal fo Judas Iscariot. Even as a full believing PIMI could not wrap my head around it.

    Now I know, that so called prophesy does not exist anyhow. Still, I do not have a scientific sound answer to whether we have free will or not .

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Well regardless of various philosophies, the Bible makes some very clear statements on the subject. It does not adress the case of every person as philosophy requires, but it mention some cases in which God has no concern about human choice. "They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen" Acts 4:28. For some elusive reason this is very hard for men to accept.

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    So when Yahweh looks at time or "steps into it" on our level he can still see all things past/future/present concurrently. Therefore when he prophesies something will happen it as good as if you did it/are doing it/will do it. You have already chosen your actions at that point in time and he is reporting back what he has seen to prove His glory and power that he Truly is God. Your free will was never touched, you made your choice.

    That all sounds very nice and seemingly makes some sort of sense ,but my question would be :

    Where is their any real evidence that GOD has made a prophecy in the past and it has had a fullfillment sometime in the future ? Before now ?

    Without it all being so ambiguous that you can make anything out of it you want ?

    If we are really living in the time of the end ,the very last days of this system of things ,why didn`t he prophecy this say 200 years ago ? why are we looking at writings that were made 2,000 years ago ?

    If C.T.Russell or anyone else for that matter in the late 1800`s were used by the Creator /GOD as his chosen people ,how come none of them have ever made or voiced a prophecy from GOD that has come true ? That can become verifiable and absolute ?

    Can you name one ? from that time ? The late 1800`s ? Or have these religious leaders all fallen back on what was supposed to have been said 2,000 years ago ?


  • waton
    waton

    If you believe in wt-bible - interpreted prophecy you have lost your free will. You are now limited to do wt's will, or else.

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    No such thing as 'prophecy'. Just coincidental happenstance and generalization of circumstances.

    Confusus says----- "Even a blind squirrel finds and acorn once in a while!"

    just saying!

  • Lost in the fog
    Lost in the fog

    I remember we were discussing predestination at the KH once, and an older elder produced a WT which said that Jehovah has the ability of foreknowledge but - wait for it - He can choose not to use it.

    So somehow Jehovah blanks out his super ability to know the outcome of each person's actions.

    I didn't get it then, and I definitely don't get it now. Usual WT gobbledegook when they want to appear intelligent but don't know the answer either.

  • cofty
    cofty

    It's a great question.

    If God has - or as the WT has it, COULD HAVE if he chose - perfect knowledge of the future, then free will is a delusion.

    The book of your life, in every minute detail is already written, and you have no choice but to act it out.

    Every effort by theologians to combine foreknowledge and free will amounts to nothing but sophistry and hand waving.

    This should tell you something about theology.

  • Lost in the fog
    Lost in the fog

    W06 6/1 24-25.

    Jehovah Tells “From the Beginning the Finale”
    The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom—2006

    17. Why can we say that Jehovah’s exercise of foreknowledge is selective?

    17 Jehovah apparently chose not to foresee what Adam​—and Eve—​would do, even though He has the ability to know everything in advance. It is therefore a question, not of whether Jehovah can foresee the future, but of whether he chooses to do so. Furthermore, we can reason that Jehovah, being a God of love, would not knowingly and cruelly predetermine that rebellion​—with all its sad consequences—​should take place. (Matthew 7:11; 1 John 4:8) Thus, as far as Jehovah’s exercise of foreknowledge is concerned, it is selective.

    A bit like having a selective memory if questioned by the police I suppose.... 😉

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