by metatron 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
But then you bring up 120 years of false prophecies. You've got to do better than that. There are close to 2000 years of false prophecies.
But isn't the 120 years of false prophecies exactly the thing that should cause JW's and the Watchtower organization itself to drop their pretenses of being "God's sole channel of truth?" A belief that is automatically exclusionary towards anything outside of it? A belief that results in JW's "judging" everything outside of the org to be Satanic?
Discussion like this are excellent. I'm happy to tread in the well-worn footsteps of
others who have used this and other forums to expose the Watchtower - and the
extremism of its apologists.
So, I use "half-baked notions" to "bad mouth" the cold reptilian Theocrats?
I'm delighted to do so - and equally delighted to provoke its defenders
into exposing the extremes that underly their glorious "faith".
Amazing, isn't it that a thorough condemnation of nearly everything and everyone
on this planet exceeding 99.9% of the human race only qualifies as
"half-baked".
"For a fact you men are the people
and with you wisdom will die out" Job 12:2
metatron
I think I made it quite clear that "judging" is a function of life itself. When a person has good judgement it means that they skillfully apply criteria in the decision process.
When Jesus counseled against "judging" I hope he meant the tendency to judge without the pertinent facts.
proplog,
You are ignoring the facts of the watchtower teachings. To be clear here, Jesus spoke about judging others within the context of salvation not "skillfully applying criteria with good judgment". I am surprised that you don't see a difference here! You're just kidding right? As far as having the pertinent facts goes......If the jw's are not judgmental then I am a monkey's uncle.....and I'm a female so we know that can't be right....
What I suggest is that people quit posting non-sense like this
I respectfully suggest you stop making such ludicrous suggestions.
Metatron:
Even though the Flood is just a myth - what percentage of the worlds population does the Bible indicate were saved?
I believe that the original point made by metatron concerns NOT how many people will be saved but WHO the wt teaches will be saved. Them, of course. There is the judging aspect. Not because of Christ but because of their denomination. To argue the FACT that the jws are supremely judgmental is absurd.
Metatron, DJ and others:
I believe that the original point made by metatron concerns NOT how many people will be saved but WHO the wt teaches will be saved.
In a discussion forum such as this everything is fair game. Metatron keeps bringing up the 99.9% destruction as if this is incongruent with Jesus' teachings. We'll see if he gives a straight answer to my question: What is his best guess as to the percentage of the worlds population that were spared in the Mythical World-Wide Noachian flood? 8 out 8000? If you allow a population to start with 2 and let it increase at the rate of 1% per year you would reach the 8000 point in about 832 years. At that point if you saved only 8 people you would be at the 99.9% destruction point. I'm no expert at population dynamics but the flood myth plus a little math would establish that the Hebrew God Jehovah knocked off a good portion more than 99.9% of the earths population in the flood.
"Just as the days of Noah..." Oh yeah! The next time he is only going to kill humans. He's going to give a free pass for animals.
Of course this is not a pleasant thought. But by believing otherwise you are challenging the Bible and losing the right to call yourself Christian.
Now let's look a little closer at what you think is Metatrons point: Who will be saved?
Oh yes - we have grown up in a democratic society where the greatest sin is exclusion. Flash back 2000 years. Ask a Christian if Jehovah is going to spare those people who decided they preferred to be Jews and didn't want to accept Christ as their savior?. At the very least it appears you have to accept Jesus (and the flood myth that he validated) if you would be saved. What if you are a sincere Budhist, Hindu, Moslem, Sikh, Bahai, Mormon or any of the 5 billion people who don't in any way profess a belief in Jesus as their savior? Is he going to save them? Of the Billion that claim they are Christian but carry on lives of sin (as strictly defined in the Bible) - is Jesus going to save them? What about those Christians that don't regularly ask for forgiveness in prayer? Where would a God with a reputation of having once destroyed 99.9 percent of the earths population draw the judgement line?
So is it really absurd to think Christians might be concerned that they are on the RIGHT path?
The only evidence that has been presented that Jehovah's Witnesses are sooooo judgemental is anecdotal. What is significant about anecdotal evidence?
I will explain:
The premises of a good argument must provide SUFFICIENT GROUNDS for the truth of its conclusion Evidence based entirely on a persons own experience or even a number of their acquaintances is not acceptable. As the Watchtower has long argued would you go to the Scribes & Pharisees to get an accurate appraisal of Jesus and his followers?
Since personal experience doesn't provide sufficient grounds for Metatrons conclusions you are left with what Jehovah's Witnesses say. And then you have to decide if what they say is in some extraordinary way out of harmony with the teachings of Jesus. JW's have said that 99.9% of the earths population will be destroyed. I have shown how that is congruent with Jesus' teaching and it explains why there would be an urgent effort to declare the message of salvation.
Finally explain this:
John 15:17-16:417 "These things I command YOU, that YOU love one another. 18 If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. 19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU. 20 Bear in mind the word I said to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute YOU also; if they have observed my word, they will observe YOURS also. 21 But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He that hates me hates also my Father. 24 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have both seen and hated me as well as my Father. 25 But it is that the word written in their Law may be fulfilled, ‘They hated me without cause.’
Metatron, and others on this forum: You are haters of JW's and you do so without cause.
You are haters of JW's
I take offense at that comment. I don't hate JW's, I hate JWism.
Your saying that anecdotal evidence doesn't count in a discussion like this is absurd. How do you quantify judgementalism? You want us to take surveys, gather statistics? LOL
Dan The Man:
Actually not only does anecdotal evidence not count much - a discussion based on anecdotal evidence doesn't count much. In this case it is just an opportunity for Metatron and others to rant. And they have shown this by personal attacks and poisoning the well. (I have given up on receiving any apologies)
How do you quantify judgementalism?
That's not my problem. However it would be more productive to generate a scale of judgementalism then to go off half-baked and judge a "whole" religion made up of 6 million people based on the perceptions of a very small group of mal-contents.
You want us to take surveys, gather statistics?
Absolutely. And if you can't or don't want to spend the time then you ought to shut up. And once again that is MY point. There are plenty of things to discuss about what Jehovah's Witnesses actually say that are wrong. There is no need to propagandize.
I picked this topic because it seemed like a rather boring post that would quickly die a death after a couple hundred views. But there are plenty of examples of the kind of garbage that is extremely offensive and meant to be offensive and hurtful.
Haters of JWs offends you? How about "Those who don't love JW's very much?"
I am glad this subject has played out for a while. It should let lurkers see how far people who don't like JWS go to try to make a case.
That's not my problem.
Well, you are the one who is saying that anecdotal evidence is not helpful, so I'm asking you for some better ideas.
You want us to take surveys, gather statistics?Absolutely. And if you can't or don't want to spend the time then you ought to shut up. And once again that is MY point. There are plenty of things to discuss about what Jehovah's Witnesses actually say that are wrong. There is no need to propagandize.
You're acting like this thread is some kind of court trial! This is a discussion! You're starting to sound a little bit silly here.
Speaking of what JW's actually say, I wish you had responded to my request that you post the WT-CD hit count on certain scriptures versus the one that this thread is based upon. Perhaps if JW's gave more equal time to scriptures such as Luke 6:37 as they do 1 Cor 15:33 and John 17:16, there wouldn't be such extreme shunning and the who's-in/who's out fundamentalist mentality.
And don't tell me to shut up. Your demands for apologies and telling us to shut up are childish and embarrassing.
Haters of JWs offends you? How about "Those who don't love JW's very much?"
Well, that would be an improvement, but "not a hater of JW's at all" would be most accurate.
It should let lurkers see how far people who don't like JWS go to try to make a case.
Where are the extreme statements in this thread?
And once again, this isn't about liking or disliking JW's. It's about their mental virus religion and the way it manifests itself in their lives, in an extremely judgemental, exclusivistic attitude.
