There is a reason why JW systematically are not allowed reading old litereature of their own religion, it is even sanctioned to study old books of watchtower, because reading old books would lead to complete desillusion in the membership, because the changing doctrines are not a sign of progress in enlightenment but of something else.
Another generation....
by joey jojo 241 Replies latest jw experiences
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Fisherman
I would agree with you that it would be a humbling experience to face the person or persons that you wronged, (Assuming, for the sake of discussion that this is all true...) TD
juxtaposition
Why, for example, die in a concentration camp if the full extent of your hope is to be resurrected right alongside your captors???? What possible incentive is that to be faithful????? TD
....are not the things that these people are going to be judged on.TD
If they are resurrected
which is that in JW theology, virtually everyone gets resurrected. TD
*** w12 9/1 p. 17 What Will Happen on Judgment Day? ***
What will Judgment Day accomplish?
Those who died without ever having come to know Jehovah God and serve him will have the opportunity to change and do good. If they do so, their resurrection will turn out to be “a resurrection of life.” Some of the resurrected ones, however, will not want to learn Jehovah’s ways. Theirs will turn out to be “a resurrection of judgment.”—Read John 5:28, 29; Isaiah 26:10; 65:20. -
TD
Prologos
-- How so, please give details. was not the wt doctrine that those not of the "little flock" would come back to earth, option B?
How is dying in your sin salvation? In what sense does that constitute being saved?
In mainstream Christianity, salvation is the crown of heavenly life. That is only slightly less true in the JW faith inasmuch as the heavenly calling was the only hope Christians for more than 19 centuries. (I've cited quotes from their literature to that effect already.)
The JW faith bases their salvific model on Revelation 7 where there are two and only two groups. There is no option, 'C' or third group. There are no "Other sheep" apart from the "Great Crowd" (With the exception of accidents, illness and other forms of untimely death.) in the Christian Era.
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TD
Fisherman.
"Coming to know Jehovah God" is an interesting turn of phrase. Would you care to define it from JW literature?
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TD
DB
TD - I think you are attempting to apply logic to a theology that's not logical.
I don't disagree, but I would qualify that by adding that I'm looking for a particular flavor of logic that I would describe as, "Continuity."
Consider for example, the following quote:
"Especially beginning in 1935, when the identity of the "great multitude" or "great crowd" was clearly understood, large numbers of these began to manifest themselves....God's infallible word depicts this group as 'coming out of the great tribulation,' being survivors of it, living right on into God's New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation 7:9,10,14, John 11:26) The early members of this group are now in their 60's or 70's or older. Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The "great crowd," including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the "new earth." (Survival Into A New Earth p. 185)
The JW's would never say this today, but the idea is still implicit inasmuch as nothing whatsoever has changed regarding the "Great Crowd" teaching. That, (IMHO) is a gaping hole in their theology.
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prologos
TD: "The JW faith bases their salvific model on Revelation 7 where there are two and only two groups.
My reading gives 3 groups with wt explanation,
1) The 12 tribes of Israel, those with an earthly hope.
2) the 144k sealed out of those tribes (the sealed, anointed heavenly class since Pentecost/ Stephen.)
3) the great Crowd, that is saved, that comes out of the Great tribulation. fits the description of Rev 21 : "wiped every tear from their eyes--"
I thought you had in mind another 3rd group that wt implied to exist in the middle ages.
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TD
with wt explanation,
May I see the quote? I'm the first to admit that as a non-JW, there are nuances I may have missed.
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ZAPPA-ESQUE
joey jojo
"Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah's people have at times speculated about
That should read : The GB have at times [often] speculated ............................ That is a deliberate attempt to push the focus back onto the R+F ..as usual
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prologos
TD --wt August 15, 2009. page 8. .-- so, wt at one time calls these 12 tribes the anointed only, at another, the worldly, but Rev 7 and the quote above make it clear, that the tribes are bigger than the sealed, 144k, , but wt does not want to admit that their "earthly class", the 12 tribes, are "christians" or all "spiritual" Israelite. --For the rulers & priests, the anointed, to be sealed out of the general population, or more particularly from among the exceptional jws, both "classes" have to co-exists, and that is why both the overlapping anointed and the natural general mankind generation have to outlive this together, It is wt that generated these gross generation gyrations, both in length and composition. .
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prologos
f Rev 7 would be relevant for our generation, using wts various statements on the players' identity, The twelve tribes, aka Other Sheep, bring forth the last of the 144 000, who are sealed, also raptured before the winds of Armageddon, and the members of these tribes emerge, turn out to be the Great crowd, who, if passing the final test will have been saved. or?