i read the worlds oldest person died.
Another generation....
by joey jojo 241 Replies latest jw experiences
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Fisherman
That, (IMHO) is a gaping hole in their theology.TD
How is there a gaping hole in wt theology in relation to the great crowd?
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TD
Because of the time constraint inherent in the concept, Fisherman. I've explained that constraint at great length and provided quotes where it was acknowledged by WT writers themselves.
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prologos
TD: :--time constraint inherent in the concept, --One of the constraints are doctrinal, because you can not come out of something (the GT) that does not exist (yet). It was easier earlier, for, according to wt writers then, the great tribulation started with the Great War, their pet 1914, stopped in 1918, to allow the GC to come out of the GT and it would start up again--at Armageddon . Doctrinal: only faithful baptized jws will come out the GT, Millions of them from born before 1918 alone (according to " The world has ended, millions now living will never die---" talk. so: where are the millions of super centenarians that are JWs now- or will be when Armageddon is supposed to start?
Fishermen are notorious for bragging about the one that got away! This one got away from wt a long time ago.
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Fisherman
Because of the time constraint inherent in the concept, Fisherman. -TD
*** w15 2/15 p. 32 “A Very Precious Season” ***
The year 1935 marked a dramatic change that affected future Memorial observances, for the meaning of the “great multitude” (KJ), or “great crowd,” of Revelation 7:9 was clarified. Until then, Jehovah’s servants had viewed this group as consecrated Christians who were less zealous. Now this vast throng was identified as faithful worshippers who hope to live on a paradise earth......JW have never claimed to be infaliible and have adimitted in writting that their gt expectations have been off date but not doctrinally wrong -but there still does not appear to be any gaping hole in wt theology of a great crowd surviving the gt and they continue to teach the same as the above quoted wt shows.
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prologos
wt April 15 1995 page 31, par. 3: "--Revelation 7:9 is describing this crowd after the tribulation, we ---" bold added for emphasis. It is twisting the scriptures to say the great crowd survives , or exists as an entity before the great tribulation.
F: "The year 1935 marked a dramatic change that affected future Memorial observances,, yeah, It introduced the "deny the Christ", -pass the emblems- period. In John 6 Jesus said to partake is essential to get everlasting life, ( the earthly gift); wt writers will deny them that, by substituting: partaking will impart immortality and that for the "anointed" only.1935 changed wt doctrine little, it is continuing heading south.
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Fisherman
In John 6 Jesus said to partake is essential to get everlasting life
Prologos, that is another topic. I am not saying that it is not related but I am only focusing TD commentary on the great crowd.
It is twisting the scriptures to say the great crowd survives , or exists as an entity before the great tribulation.
I understand what you are saying but what the wt concludes seems logical when they reason that in order to come out of the gt or survive they must exist as a gc beforehand. The wt I quoted from above admits they were wrong about the gc prior to 1935.
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prologos
F: in order to come out of the gt or survive they must exist as a gc beforehand. not true, they have to, of course, exist as individuals, but to say in unison : " we owe salvation -- " the common experience makes them into the great crowd. and because they never partook of the emblems, they are looking forward to 1000 years of work to earn their salvation. wt has it all worked out how to make people work,-- another generation-- -
TD
....they continue to teach the same as the above quoted wt shows.
And that is the problem. It is almost ironic that you can state it in your own words and still not see it.
The "Great Crowd" doctrine it its current form is dependent upon a chronological understanding of the term, "Generation" (i.e. A human lifespan) that was discarded 21 years ago.
It is simply not possible to survive an event that falls outside the boundaries. of a human lifespan. This isn't my personal opinion; this isn't subjective; it's just cold hard math.
I going reproduce a quote (For the third time on this thread) where the time element inherent in the teaching was directly stated:"God's infallible word depicts this group as 'coming out of the great tribulation,' being survivors of it, living right on into God's New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation 7:9,10,14, John 11:26) The early members of this group are now in their 60's or 70's or older. Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The "great crowd," including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the "new earth." "(Survival Into A New Earth p. 185)
If you have any comments on this quote, I'm interested in hearing them.
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konceptual99
Witnesses would simply discard that quote as something that has been replaced by the light getting progressively brighter. They would say they were not wrong. They would say that is how Holy Spirit led the GB to interpret the scriptures then. They would say they it is now clear there is an overlapping generation, that it can only be a single overlap and that the end is imminent.
They might claim that if the overlapping generation had been clear earlier then it would have meant the growth of the organisation would have been different so Jehovah allowed the older understanding to be presented. They will repeat they were not wrong and that what is now taught is not materially different and that context and time means both explanations were/are correct and not contradictory.
They will be less ready with an answer when asked to explain why the older explanation could be explained from the Bible using scripture (albeit their interpretation) yet the new explanation cannot be explained with a single scripture? Why is it that the progressive revealing of meaning has resulted in something with less scriptural basis?