Another generation.... (page 17)

Vanderhoven7

The generation Jesus was referring to was His own.

prologos

Vh: "The generation Jesus was referring to was His own. We understand Vanderhoven, and that talk has it's own problems. we are discussing the wt's generation permutations.

The Jesus generation prophecy had the "anointed" ak Christians survive all these things, the destruction, "--flee to the mountains--" in the latest

Wt generation prediction, the "anointed" do not survive even the first stage, let alone the final destruction, they are rapture before it all ends. and that is only the predictions, We are discussing the reality, the happenings, and the generations no matter how you slice them are all going, they are not seeing "all these things that are destined to occur". that is why we demur.

Fisherman

not a few wheezers in wheelchairs,

Given: WT theology

Right, the gc is not only made up of 1935ers but of a multitude of younger members too that came in after 1935 and the ingathering continues, Why shouldn't such destined to be elderly not have an opportunity to survive the gt?

prologos

F: "--the ingathering continues, -- so in your view, is the 1935 generation destined to be declared overlapping too? (did not Rutherford in 1935 say at an assembly: " Behold the Great Multitude?") then and there? ?did you get the point though,

Wt predicts that the "anointed" generation will not see "all the things " before they pass away, gathered to heaven, before Armageddon. But that contradicts what Jesus, who said : The disciples, that generation really, will " NOT PASS AWAY" until the destruction is finished. Which was the case in the real fulfillment. The apostles walked.

The wt "anointed" generation is already a degenerate teaching before we even see how it fails in its simple final fulfillment.

Fisherman

My father lived beyond the life expectancy......doesn't sound like much of an opportunity. maybe it would have been better to say he had a slim chance of it....... -UC

I see your point.

Ucantnome

This is what the book From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained WT. 1958 says on page 197

'The great crowd has "come out of the great tribulation." This is the great tribulation or trouble that Jesus said would mark this "time of the end." This tribulation began on the Devil's organization A.D. 1914 When Jehovah's newly enthroned King took was action against his enemies in heaven. ( From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained WT. 1958)'

This would have been about the time my parents became JW and so they would have believed they would not die of old age as the Watchtower March 15. 1965 on page 177 speaking of the great crowd

'They will never go to Hades or Sheol and need to be resurrected.'

When the understanding changed regarding the tribulation and the time interval between the first part and the second part with a gap in the middle a suggestion made in 1925. The Watchtower of January 15th 1970 page 53 says

'Then the time interval between the opening part of the "great tribulation" and the closing Armageddon part thereof will prove to be around five times as long as the length of the "great tribulation" itself.'

This 'will prove to be around five times as long' I believe is a reference to 1975. Which my father certainly thought was the date that the end would come by. If not they still had the generation.

Then in 1995 that was taken away. Now he needs the resurrection.

Lieu

If i were going the biblical route then I would have to go with what Jesus said. His prophetic words, his message. Christ is the Word of God. Anyone bringing a different message is to be ignored.

I would pay no attention to the opinions coming out of NY on the matter. Past, present, or future.

Fisherman

".........heaven and earth will pass away but my words will by no means pass away......" JC

wt has never professed to be inspired although they assert to be directed by God's HS exclusively;I agree. I follow wt logic and Bible interpretation and I agree with wt theology. It fits. It appears that Judge Rutherford believed that the gc of 1935 should expect life not death from old age concurrently while pointing out the distinction between the anointed and the gc but maybe not. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001363

WT had expectations in 1914 and in 1925 and so on. It is in writing as UC points out, so they do not deny it. AS I see it, non anointed are modern day OS, a "great crowd of other sheep", as wt puts it. The the term gc is only a term used to describe and distinguish from anointed such that hope to be the gc of Rev when the gt comes within the limit of generation (jc meaning). The posted wt link points to information that states that in 1935 an in-gathering of the gc began although prior to 1935 some had the paradise earth desire. Albeit, given what Jesus meant by generation, the in-gathering of the gc should not exceed its "life expectancy"

Given wt theology, in terms of time span, what did Jesus mean when he referred to the generation of 1914? It seems that wt did not know and does not know for sure, but what is evident is that anointed that saw the "sign "have died

( gone to heaven) and overlappers are alive on earth. Wt current anointed overlap generation definition although disappointing is academically valid, not only because the overlap doctrine is valid but also because those of the gc born circa1935 have not passed away ( if their life span governs generation length as TD points out) .

Ucantnome

wt has never professed to be inspired although they assert to be directed by God's HS exclusively;I agree.

In an article in the October 1st 1960 Watchtower, The Holy Bible-the book by Jehovah's Witnesses on page 586 under the subheading Written under inspiration, paragraph 10 quotes Matthew 12:28 and then Luke 11:20 where Jesus expelled demons and in Luke's account it says,' ..by means of God's finger...' In the following paragraph it mentions that

'Jesus thus spoke of God's spirit as God's "finger." In a direct way God's finger wrote the Ten Commandments on the two tablets of stone. But when God used men to write the various books of the Holy Bible God's symbolic finger, his spirit, shoved the stylus or pen of these men.'

In another Watchtower 1963 page 502 in the article Understanding what the Spirit is on page 503 it says,

..we have seen the word spirit has at least seven distinct meanings.

and in the previous paragraph to this it talks of Jesus miracles and that these were done by God's spirit and quotes Matthew 12:28. It then says'

'It was the same active force that gave Samson the strength to perform astonishing deeds,...'

Further on same paragraph,

'It enveloped 120 disciples of Jesus Christ at Pentecost and made it possible for them to heal the sick and raise the dead. God's spirit was poured out upon them in this fashion, he baptizing them in it (Acts 2:17)'

The way that I understand it is that this scripture in Acts 2:17 where it talks of the pouring out God's spirit and they 'will prophesy' which verse 16 shows to be quoting from the book of Joel is fulfilled in the remnant of anointed Christians from 1919.

'The dedicated believers had been anointed with holy spirit to prophesy and preach.'(WT.1966.page 690)

As they spoke of themselves as 'commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah'* and are prophesying due to the holy spirit like Jesus performed miracles and the bible was written. I don't really see a difference between. Inspired and directed.

*(The Nations Shall Know That I am Jehovah-How? WT 1971)

prologos

Fisherman, you said: "--Wt current anointed overlap generation definition although disappointing is academically valid, not only because the overlap doctrine is valid but also because those of the gc born circa1935 have not passed away ( if their life span governs generation length as TD points out) . wow.

the wt account, page 84 of the" jw, proclaimers" book says, that on May 31**, at the Washington DC convention, the members of the great multitude rose from their seats, so anyone listening to the speaker and understanding would have to be of school age? say born before 1930? now at least 86 years old? the majority of them now dead, and not the general population, but baptized, loyal (the flavour of the year).? but if you Fisherman consider the overlapping generation idea valid, and the maximum natural human lifespan is 120 years, what will prevent wt or people like you to come up with the overlapping Great Crowd of 240 years, taken the wt hope to 2170, a hundred years longer than the double Freddy franchise of David Splane's talk?

Another generation indeed, tell us another one like that.--

** one of the greatest earthquakes occurred that day, killing 10s of thousands near the Himalayas, so another great war/ earthquakes analogy?? to keep the "start a generation with a bang" trend?

Another generation....

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